From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id wElzHnDNumL1vQAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 11:44:16 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id mKtIHnDNumLV6QAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 11:44:16 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED7CC37F59 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 11:44:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:52780 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o67lX-0001iW-0P for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 05:44:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34110) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o67Yn-0004VY-AO for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 05:31:06 -0400 Received: from flashner.co.il ([178.62.234.194]:59336) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o67Yj-0006oR-Cp for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 05:31:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (unknown [141.226.14.191]) by flashner.co.il (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C025A40043; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 09:30:58 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 12:30:26 +0300 From: Efraim Flashner To: Vagrant Cascadian Cc: Julien Lepiller , guix-devel@gnu.org, Felix Lechner Subject: Re: maradns reproducibility fixes and the merits of picking a random number Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Vagrant Cascadian , Julien Lepiller , guix-devel@gnu.org, Felix Lechner References: <87pmjlfdjl.fsf@contorta> <310AD876-916E-4020-A87E-5609E8166432@lepiller.eu> <87a6amgak1.fsf@contorta> <87r13grv6a.fsf@contorta> <87leth7ev6.fsf@contorta> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KDnsJTuBHBfxBA8p" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87leth7ev6.fsf@contorta> X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x41AAE7DCCA3D8351 X-PGP-Key: https://flashner.co.il/~efraim/efraim_flashner.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=178.62.234.194; envelope-from=efraim@flashner.co.il; helo=flashner.co.il X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1656409456; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=ryzzIqzeuGmMZ4nj41fUTgWgy2pUir9Joq7sDE+4o4g=; b=ucR9fFbTVQHXnhLWoNDTQ5WDXWK5SxOcCB8D6rLteNobbI1ZQhENcHP4Ds8gWfV34l5hJL PeTON/Lq6FXOMdBH38kDxwQsJfwqQyoB4jwABxvaZ7aphO+NpI+93Ut/FmofD7QPWYhOeJ kRXg4L8Epe2qBZlkHmD1VMqO7k/nOIUl+4V+hUOx7+FjCEWjsJxywEz0KJECTyOnB2G1UN Ve5qhaidV+Hzdt9MLGsOjFoA/0M8VxkcLMIt0LsBWyg5neyWW7TkfAKJc29KfYOgXdO+Uv XoHTrvJSiIp9SySPrpYsUybIfvRtNqOVS8npuhZdkSURHWsGaVUu+B9yVY/xDw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1656409456; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=mlsm2YTNNtM74ly//d7Jk12O8uqAskKRr9z9VSQ9cU1sQanTjlKGoAiaBtinYzcMUfszFc Uu3AfQGh5o7gTzIBqWh/o+71QuLIYcpY9DGGBtyZTaRpMdjttOIeLhSoWFINjxDaV4Kdgg Vp8RHweX5lLR6UsWKtQ+T6/Q6DBzhJMS2KPex/n1SFL/PJROTZJR2QM2YszqZzNa1KIwNc qAZrXuhgj0Vo++IWS2S+LtNz+6wlqHtmlOXXNr5mvyHxjvqN6Z6qgz3HdYFwKczBqOJY9f M1Nbz3TeTSGStaohhLL8Xq0uZhN8AoL5mhHBPnT/e/gTgEgiN8wbdXVWM6qAyw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.85 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: ED7CC37F59 X-Spam-Score: -2.85 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: tBhAOulMW9vE --KDnsJTuBHBfxBA8p Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 06:31:41PM -0700, Vagrant Cascadian wrote: > On 2022-06-22, Vagrant Cascadian wrote: > > On 2022-06-08, Vagrant Cascadian wrote: > >> On 2022-06-08, Efraim Flashner wrote: > >>> On Tue, Jun 07, 2022 at 07:20:25AM +0200, Julien Lepiller wrote: > >>>> On June 7, 2022 5:24:22 AM GMT+02:00, Felix Lechner wrote: > >>>> >On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 6:50 PM Vagrant Cascadian > >>>> > wrote: > >>> This is something we can work with. We can just mark the package as > >>> '#:substitutable? #f' and then everyone will have to build it > >>> themselves. It still won't really be reproducible, but everyone will > >>> actually have their own special random number. > >> > >> This actually seems like the best approach in the short term! Leaving > >> time to work out a better fix long-term, probably by working with > >> upstream... > >> > >> Thoughts? > > > > Should I just push that part for the short-term workaround? Or does > > someone else want to push that? > > > > > >>>> >MaraDNS does not support DNSSEC so the program may not use entropy = for > >>>> >keys. Either way, I'd rather use an unreproducible build than, > >>>> >accidentally, a known number series to encrypt secrets. Can one pat= ch > >>>> >out the constant entirely so it is no longer available? > >>>> > > >>>> >The upstream website says: "People like MaraDNS because it=E2=80=99= s ... > >>>> >remarkably secure." [1] Since many distributions have the same issu= e, > >>>> >upstream could perhaps offer the patch as a build switch to enable a > >>>> >build-time seed only when needed. > >>>>=20 > >>>> Sounds like the safest option. Maybe we could change the code that u= ses that number to naise an exception or abort? > >> > >> Yeah, seems worth taking this or similar ideas upstream... > > > > And, this was the best place I found to mention this issue upstream, > > will see what kind of response I get: > > > > https://github.com/samboy/MaraDNS/discussions/101#discussioncomment-3= 006487 >=20 > Upstream appears to think it is mostly ok to actually embed a specific > random prime... and not have it be different across all the builds, as > the number is mixed with other randomness from /dev/urandom. >=20 > It is expensive to generate the random prime on some hardware, so doing > so at runtime might not be feasible in some cases... >=20 > So, where do we go from here, knowing what we now know? :) >=20 >=20 > live well, > vagrant I looked back at the original email. I think we should not embed a static random prime and mark it as non-substitutable. Then with that flag add a note that it generates a prime during building and everyone having a unique prime is more important to us than everyone having the same reproducible prime. --=20 Efraim Flashner =D7=90=D7=A4=D7=A8=D7=99=D7=9D = =D7=A4=D7=9C=D7=A9=D7=A0=D7=A8 GPG key =3D A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted --KDnsJTuBHBfxBA8p Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEoov0DD5VE3JmLRT3Qarn3Mo9g1EFAmK6yi8ACgkQQarn3Mo9 g1EaSw//XIPegAZJzlhdiavIYfxo5U2I+CXTs2tguRzuzXFeO5kkqKjFwP/qRLWh vCErU1IPC6/6OFSZIItpl2xpCFMxCWHPWiNw/Tlo7U+1Urc2t0sLkLoSqG06xy6f q0B79Zhld65mzoDiuMqsrP42D6GQ28RNC8UgSEc6Uc1LmxLBG0j4SSN3jRwgCk3H SEFU+HSHXtycJ/uWgUdjkZyRYLEyp0fKR2fJ2zO+y3HXAanxplJNqf8m9df0jCZd HeRH5Eb415Oy2UrgtVEARDVPtd+HF+S9NpYcUocN7tvXfVzUQxgTooUvGJZpE/4Z i/yWB/sEi+hTPn6spFWz28VNojS2h5VqKFMTun0DxIuEety7y/gwvqTPTL+ui7l/ CL9dnf5Zilp/N6L2+2Ike6qxe/hfVM+ViyVP4LzKPUEvTRAn8qK5p5CL0SryJP+w hb+fdcxt2/tP0nczJ3MA8G8YrcDRvB8k4zup97jM9IQZeGzNqg84Lnm2GAXBE7Wg s0xTz0a09aI/97LP50DkUOIPjgyN+vpT6ZbHgHdboNpkZ11XMy5zFvEDsKGpwLG4 6s/EEaZh4ei6B8QkMQxVXf76pv5FZstDR8Njmf+fZoy/SGhKpAatGzJ0v1hKqUpv BIJUmNGLfEMHfUqPLny5htZQ3l0UhT/QqCZCkCvak+Vp1iXbRUY= =yKaC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KDnsJTuBHBfxBA8p--