From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id aA2mDA29d2KTcQEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 08 May 2022 14:52:29 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id sLmxDA29d2LGlwAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 08 May 2022 14:52:29 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E665FB3C9 for ; Sun, 8 May 2022 14:52:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:36884 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nngOi-0005Z6-3O for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 08 May 2022 08:52:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46176) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nnTZw-00069Z-Aw for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2022 19:11:12 -0400 Received: from smtp.wave.syn-alias.com ([129.159.93.171]:15378) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nnTZv-000114-00 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2022 19:11:12 -0400 X-Authed-Username: bGFycnlAZG9vbGl0dGxlLmJvYS5vcmc= Authentication-Results: smtp01.wave.email-ash1.sync.lan smtp.mail=larry@doolittle.boa.org; spf=neutral; sender-id=neutral Received: from [66.234.197.165] ([66.234.197.165:57276] helo=awake.lan) by mail.astound.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 4.4.0.19839 r(msys-ecelerity:tags/4.4.0.0^0)) with ESMTP id E3/71-11958-A8CF6726; Sat, 07 May 2022 19:11:07 -0400 Received: from larry by awake.lan with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1nnTZq-0004PH-8S; Sat, 07 May 2022 16:11:06 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 16:11:06 -0700 From: Larry Doolittle To: General discussions about reproducible builds Cc: Jan Nieuwenhuizen , guix-devel@gnu.org, bootstrappable@freelists.org Subject: Re: GNU Mes 0.24 released Message-ID: References: <87fslr4xqd.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0axynso.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87k0axynso.fsf@gnu.org> X-Vade-Verdict: clean X-Vade-Analysis-1: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrfeeigddukecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhf X-Vade-Analysis-2: ihhlvgemucfujgfpteevqfftpdghtegggfdpgffpggdqhgetggfgpdfqfgfvnecuuegrihhlohhuthem X-Vade-Analysis-3: uceftddunecunecujfgurhepfffhvfevuffkfhggtggugfgjsehtkeertddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpefn X-Vade-Analysis-4: rghrrhihucffohholhhithhtlhgvuceolhgrrhhrhiesughoohhlihhtthhlvgdrsghorgdrohhrgheq X-Vade-Analysis-5: necuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepheeuvdfhieelffekjeetvdelveeuudekfeffveeiueekgfeufeelgedv X-Vade-Analysis-6: heeikedvnecukfhppeeiiedrvdefgedrudeljedrudeiheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecu X-Vade-Analysis-7: rfgrrhgrmhepihhnvghtpeeiiedrvdefgedrudeljedrudeihedphhgvlhhopegrfigrkhgvrdhlrghn X-Vade-Analysis-8: pdhmrghilhhfrhhomheplhgrrhhrhiesughoohhlihhtthhlvgdrsghorgdrohhrghdprhgtphhtthho X-Vade-Analysis-9: pehrsgdqghgvnhgvrhgrlheslhhishhtshdrrhgvphhrohguuhgtihgslhgvqdgsuhhilhgushdrohhr X-Vade-Analysis-10: ghdprhgtphhtthhopehjrghnnhgvkhgvsehgnhhurdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtohepghhuihigqdguvghv X-Vade-Analysis-11: vghlsehgnhhurdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtohepsghoohhtshhtrhgrphhprggslhgvsehfrhgvvghlihhs X-Vade-Analysis-12: thhsrdhorhhgpdhhohhsthepshhmthhprdgvmhgvrhgrlhgurdgvmhgrihhlqdgrshhhuddrshihnhgt X-Vade-Analysis-13: rdhlrghnpdhsphhfpehnvghuthhrrghlpdgukhhimheppdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopeegpdetuhhthhdq X-Vade-Analysis-14: fghsvghrpe X-Vade-Client: EMERALD Received-SPF: none client-ip=129.159.93.171; envelope-from=larry@doolittle.boa.org; helo=smtp.wave.syn-alias.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 08 May 2022 08:51:40 -0400 X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1652014348; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=BSlUDIVpG22v0aRaFQ8R/aGUOPZDFkoTrKYfuBgbqkY=; b=gIOOqJvkwkXCRBK2x7WEmbpprFPA49Rx3lQz3ipAo4l773Sf8FHAPJiZfvDr9ej5Ilgnbb 3v+6KW8uQC+4ejLmYTGI/oLIuWOajuAREtP75NoAtwUHm3XDpbOG8/S/U7QdwlNRVD/awy lNzg4iu0xXdE0WYizKRwTv0LYRGNoJv61n4LYQse/HtSWmtq5LpoJQ/xnCZbUpkr6IjSRl Bf2QprCSK8/aRABq8BPrjcxIjXCQcn66Z5o7tla9T4+80EYPx9pGCeOhn9W3w5zIt11IhG LlRNiaQ/2VrMtinSTEAAep5dYNSpXmZsYA2GL0zMrdTc7UKzjSkUqUu+e38ncg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1652014348; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=a6iUOjBHxYJG9ddYDh3EPjFbDlYPDk4dsGsU+Ji7nlWMfdMLmq87qnL0sID5AcFSbh01Fe h51f9lsKRBE3DmXgPT6QZWXuQ3f7rEnTXgZpx0GoWNz17hcC/JBeOo52aVQnJhSC36lbWx NeUvH7Me7hCvdcfXU5wYYDFGeQF48eGY5Dtvh96ebiUOkwK/mvenx4JCiPyupWaWgSP1bW zj0NHD2qSor3lFMvlYIpuu+e4QTRZzY2Diu6UZsJy1qTRQHuEQs72pibgcVw2HaILBCpfm 2YATvDxPnQm5stNsrnFOHRUEjlQHHxbKNVZA7Lp3xY7/91koKtlfWMGgYw1D9g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.81 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: E665FB3C9 X-Spam-Score: -2.81 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: EtSGEBY2FViY Ludovic and friends - On Sun, May 08, 2022 at 12:34:47AM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote: > Jan Nieuwenhuizen skribis: > > Mes has now been ported to M2-Planet and can be bootstrapped using > > stage0-posix[0], starting from the 357-byte hex0 binary of the > > bootstrap-seeds[1], as was promised at FOSDEM'21[2]. > This is amazing… congrats to you & everyone involved! You made it! :-) +1 > The common objection is: “you’re building from source but you’re not > gonna audit all that source code anyway, so why bother?” [...] > Supply chain security is a spectrum and I think this achievement changes > what we can expect and demand. I've had this conversation before, any my analogy is to the three legs of a stool. Bootstrapped toolchains, reproducible builds, and source-code audits. Each one is arguably useless without the others, but taken together, you've actually accomplished something meaningful. Maybe I should also include "cryptographically signed artifact distribution" on that list. - Larry