Split (gnu packages suckless) module

Split (gnu packages suckless) module

[Mekeor Melire]

Hi Guix :)

I would like to propose to split the (gnu packages suckless) module,
located in the /gnu/packages/suckless.scm source file. It contains
package declarations for software written by the Suckless group, namely
following packages:

    blind, colors, dmenu, dwm, fortify-headers, human, lchat, libutf,
    noice, prout, sbm, scron, sent, skroll, slock, slscroll, slstatus,
    spoon, st, surf, tabbed, wificurse, xbattmon

The reasons for this proposal are:

  1. We generally do not create modules according to the groups of
     developers, but rather package declarations are grouped into
     modules according to their function (e.g. "wm") or according to
     some technical or factual realm they belong to (e.g. "haskell" or
     "music"). There is no reason why software from the Suckless group
     should not follow this rule.

  2. There are hints indicating that the Suckless group sympathizes to
     oppressive Nazi ideology. The Suckless group is a registered
     association in Munich, Germany.

     https://web.archive.org/web/20210817073134/https://ev.suckless.org/impressum/

     - It has been reported that one of their members (L.H.) called
       their mail server "Wolfsschanze" which was the name of Hitlers
       last bunker.

       https://twitter.com/pid_eins/status/1113738766471057408

     - In 2017, they did a torch march during their conference which is
       a Nazi symbol.

       https://web.archive.org/web/20210910103557/http://suckless.org/conferences/2017/

     - In 2018, on the Devuan mailing list, one of their members (E.W.)
       depicts the defeat of Nazi Germany as a genocide on Germans.

       https://web.archive.org/web/20210613185451/https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20181010.120415.e5f96d11.en.html

What do you think? Maybe we should start discussing where each of these
suckless software package declarations should be moved to? My
suggestions follow:

#+begin_src
    blind:
        Command line video editing utilities
        → (gnu packages video)

    colors:
        Extract colors from pictures
        → (gnu packages image)

    dmenu:
        Dynamic menu
        → (gnu packages xorg)

    dwm:
        Dynamic window manager
        → (gnu packages wm)

    fortify-headers:
        Standalone fortify-source implementation
        → ?

    human:
        Convert bytes to human readable formats
        → (gnu packages textutils)

    lchat:
        Line chat is a frontend for the irc client ii from suckless
        → (gnu packages irc)

    libutf:
        Plan 9 compatible UTF-8 library
        → (gnu packages c)

    noice:
        Small file browser
        → (gnu packages disk)

    prout:
        Smaller lp command
        → ?

    sbm:
        Simple bandwidth monitor
        → (gnu packages monitoring)

    scron:
        Simple cron daemon
        → ?

    sent:
        Plain-text presentation tool
        → (gnu packages textutils)

    skroll:
        Commandline utility which scrolls text
        → (gnu packages textutils)

    slock:
        Simple X session lock
        → (gnu packages xorg)

    slscroll:
        Scroll-back buffer program for st
        → (gnu packages terminals)

    slstatus:
        Status monitor for window managers
        → (gnu packages wm)

    spoon:
        Set dwm status
        → (gnu packages wm)

    st:
        Simple terminal emulator
        → (gnu packages terminals)

    surf:
        Simple web browser
        → (gnu packages web-browsers)

    tabbed:
        Tab interface for application supporting Xembed
        → (gnu packages xorg)

    wificurse:
        Wifi DoS attack tool
        → (gnu packages networking)

    xbattmon:
        Simple battery monitor for X
        → (gnu packages xorg)
#+end_src

Ciao Guix :)

Re: Split (gnu packages suckless) module

[Leo Famulari]

On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 03:55:26PM +0000, Mekeor Melire wrote:
> I would like to propose to split the (gnu packages suckless) module,
> located in the /gnu/packages/suckless.scm source file.

I agree. There are already a handful of "suckless" packages scattered in
other modules.

> The reasons for this proposal are:
> 
>   1. We generally do not create modules according to the groups of
>      developers, but rather package declarations are grouped into
>      modules according to their function

Sometimes we do, as with (gnu packages freedesktop), but those packages
tend to be more tightly coupled. Anyways, that's a digression.

Thanks for bringing this up.

Re: Split (gnu packages suckless) module

[Liliana Marie Prikler]

Hi Guix,

Am Donnerstag, den 28.10.2021, 15:55 +0000 schrieb Mekeor Melire:

> The reasons for this proposal are:
> 
>   1. We generally do not create modules according to the groups of
>      developers, but rather package declarations are grouped into
>      modules according to their function (e.g. "wm") or according to
>      some technical or factual realm they belong to (e.g. "haskell" 
>      or "music"). There is no reason why software from the Suckless 
>      group should not follow this rule.
Actually, the software from the suckless group follows this rule in a
sense, as we also have a module for freedesktop, gnome, kde, etc.

>   2. There are hints indicating that the Suckless group sympathizes 
>      to oppressive Nazi ideology. The Suckless group is a registered
>      association in Munich, Germany.
This is a somewhat weak argument, as filenames only matter when editing
– you'd still be linking to a Nazi group in the homepage, which matters
much more.

On the other hand, Guix users often complain about suckless-style
software as it is in fact not the most Guix-friendly to handle.  Simply
renaming the file to "suckmore" would in my opinion be adequate, and
switching to maintained forks of their stuff ethical.

Regards,
Liliana

Re: Split (gnu packages suckless) module

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi,

Thanks for bringing this up, Mekeor.

Leo Famulari <leo@famulari.name> skribis:

> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 03:55:26PM +0000, Mekeor Melire wrote:
>> I would like to propose to split the (gnu packages suckless) module,
>> located in the /gnu/packages/suckless.scm source file.
>
> I agree. There are already a handful of "suckless" packages scattered in
> other modules.

I’m all for either moving packages as Mekeor proposes, or renaming the
file to something that does not resemble “suckless”, but I can’t think
of a good name.

I guess the first patch that makes it to guix-patches wins.  :-)

Ludo’.

Re: Split (gnu packages suckless) module

[Leo Famulari]

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 06:22:28AM +0200, Liliana Marie Prikler wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, den 28.10.2021, 15:55 +0000 schrieb Mekeor Melire:
> >   1. We generally do not create modules according to the groups of
> >      developers, but rather package declarations are grouped into
> >      modules according to their function (e.g. "wm") or according to
> >      some technical or factual realm they belong to (e.g. "haskell" 
> >      or "music"). There is no reason why software from the Suckless 
> >      group should not follow this rule.
> Actually, the software from the suckless group follows this rule in a
> sense, as we also have a module for freedesktop, gnome, kde, etc.

I think there is a distinction with these groups compared to suckless.

These software written by these groups is tightly coupled, relying on
shared libraries and APIs. They intend to create a cohesive and
integrated operating system.

Whereas the suckless software does not share code or APIs, at least as I
understand it, and does not seek to create a cohesive OS beyond the
classic loosely coupled "Unix" idea.