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Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="yP3txt59Fp/3kqIj" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.20; envelope-from=leo@famulari.name; helo=wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.63 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=famulari.name header.s=mesmtp header.b=gyQpgrwd; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm1 header.b=En7QbuKR; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 2967C9404C9 X-Spam-Score: -3.63 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: tweXFr0eBOJf --yP3txt59Fp/3kqIj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi Josh, I'm replying off-list, because this subject has been discussed soooo many times without reaching a different conclusion, and because I worry about starting a flamewar on the mailing list. On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 02:12:16PM -0500, Josh Marshall wrote: > So a separate channel would work for non-free software? I know the stuff > is fundamentally gross. I'd still like to have a better way to get out of > an ecosystem that is basically entirely all non-free software and a > transition to fully free becomes possible. If we think about free software in terms of the "4 freedoms" [0], channels are a fully-supported way to help people take advantage of the "zero-eth freedom", which is the freedom to use the software (Guix) as one sees fit. Personally, I think that ensuring an operating system is 100% free software (and with no DRM support) hampers the success of the free software movement by driving away users. If we lived in a world with free software support for common hardware (ahem, WiFi, Bluetooth, LTE) and for popular software use cases (popular games and apps, commercial and educational software), then offering a totally free system would be a viable approach. But, that world doesn't exist. Even though some people who are happy to use 10+ year old computers for very limited use cases might think it does... many of them don't even use mobile phones... they don't understand contemporary computing at all, from a practical perspective. Nevertheless, the GNU Guix project has made a commitment to working within the FSDG, and we are basically stuck with it barring some cataclysmic change. I think that maintaining a harmonious atmosphere within Guix will help it continue to grow, and channels can satisfy the need for things that don't fit the FSDG. If Guix becomes large enough, it could be transformative for the free software movement. 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