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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Scanner: mx11.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 0.52 X-Spam-Score: 0.52 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5E29B4091D X-TUID: XmOVgC3lygXb > > The biggest questions for me are: Who makes decisions right now? Who > > is handling money? What's the overlap? I know there's a desire for > > collective decision making, which is great, but right now I think a > > smaller group of core people (Ludovic + some others) needs to put a > > structure in place because it feels like nothing will happen > > otherwise. A little bit of benevolent dictatorish action could really > > get the ball rolling here. >=20 >=20 > Exactly. It's a really tricky situation. I think we all look to Ludovic > when something needs to happen. And I don't think he (hi!) needs to feel > that kind of pressure. this is also a chicken-egg issue: until some authority is delegated, the ce= nter will remain a bottleneck. and this applies to a lot of things guix: from decision making to the monor= epo (which is holding an ever-growing flow of boring package update commits= that is crowding out guix infrastructure changes). or the single debbugs i= nstance washing together 20.000 pending package updates, and 15 interesting= discussions on how to improve guix itself (figurative numbers). meanwhile there seems to be a growing inflow of enthusiastic and inspired u= sers who are bombarding the castle. this shows up in various forms, like th= e growing patch review backlog, or the growing frustration expressed on the= mailing list. the bandwidth issue of the center won't be resolved without a way to delega= te compartmentalized authority to subteams (e.g. a python channel in a sepa= rate git repo, and the gnome channel deciding which python channel commit t= o depend on). and god forbid, maybe even allow them to chose their preferre= d git forge! i'd keep the guix core to the minimum that can bootstrap a console-only sys= tem, and then let a million channels bloom. some could be maintained or jus= t blessed by the core team, some may merely be listed, while others ignored= . unfortunately the infrastructure would need to evolve to accommodate this (= e.g. eliminate the dual registry of packages; consider promoting package de= finitions from being a general toplevel form in a scheme file to something = a little more specific and a bit more constrained; IOW consider reifying th= e package database, introduce package namespaces, syntax for package lookup= , etc. maybe reuse the guile module system for this, but in a less permissi= ve way than it is currently used). this obviously needs to be well thought = out, but i don't even see it considered, let alone mentioned as desirable. a tangential to illustrate the above: at this point i was wondering where could be the list of ideas/vision for t= he future of guix, to see whether such a thing was ever considered. then i = found the TODO file. then i saw that it's very outdated and rather untidy. = then i had an impulse to add some guix-devel archive links to the distribut= ed substitute discussions, and also to delete or mark some entires DONE tha= t have long been implemented. then i considered the effort it would take to= send a patch, and the fact that i already have a lot of my effort bitrotti= ng away in the issue tracker, and why would this one not also fall through = the cracks... and then i decided not to. and that untidy TODO file will rem= ain there to be one of the inputs that newcomers will use to form an impres= sion, which will then inform their decisions about e.g. whether to contribu= te. if it were a wiki page, or a file in a separate guix-doc repo, etc, then gi= ving me write access would not be the same decision as giving me commit acc= ess to the guix repo. to sum it up: human cooperation cannot grow beyond a certain size without a= n organizational structure that can accommodate the newcomers. my impressio= n is that guix has reached such a threshold. and while a new stucture is no= t formed, potential contributors are constantly frustrated away. and it's v= ery much not obvious to judge how much value is lost that way. --=20 =E2=80=A2 attila lendvai =E2=80=A2 PGP: 963F 5D5F 45C7 DFCD 0A39 -- =E2=80=9COne of the evils of paper money is that it turns the whole country= into stock jobbers. The precariousness of its value and the uncertainty of= its fate continually operate, night and day, to produce this destructive e= ffect. Having no real value in itself it depends for support upon accident,= caprice, and party; and as it is the interest of some to depreciate and of= others to raise its value, there is a continual invention going on that de= stroys the morals of the country.=E2=80=9D =09=E2=80=94 Thomas Paine (1737=E2=80=931809), 'Complete Writings of Thomas= Paine' (1786)