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Wed, 29 Nov 2023 15:12:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lendvai.name; s=protonmail; t=1701288756; x=1701547956; bh=L2NVI9mRICDrOR2bBqv4epI3IoCyB9Kr6dFBmmQsHzY=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=AS3IYXVxYvK8EVdmkhTubYMBbvRm0FTfs1A0yPWK46euzOec5bChtAsGZ9yG8I3Q3 wV3b5CuwTkSjU3EsFIaOWGs+E/fIqwTdJt2eWOZ/UdPUcUmWs7pNuDUZwQdHNORDSK DeVLw5Eo9jwMYMmbLE6awCoOaO1yOA3tmDakvmANWoqsHpVBhnKVnTlZBun79iky8q rVN22swSt5Uj8mv4i0JAStlUCAr/oRbkwGua1Sflw2wQF9iowEuo9YKkcB3HNlhKpQ ySyOImd97dvF8zE1pWL1PtlQHde0EX9lryfdXQ1TnJy2lGdTJNlJOJOrRfLJ2Fjd0B iexA8cuq23Hdg== Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:12:30 +0000 To: Liliana Marie Prikler From: Attila Lendvai Cc: Edouard Klein , guix-devel@gnu.org, =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= , Josselin Poiret Subject: Re: Syntactic Diabetes (was Re: A friendlier API for operating-system declarations) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <87wn377rst.fsf@rdklein.fr> <877cm6reum.fsf@rdklein.fr> <52c2337b277721108e5e7cdd6ea32e37e3c20628.camel@gmail.com> <8734wsqwrh.fsf@rdklein.fr> <33976deaf13ce785edefa6ac1b3610054dd4a031.camel@gmail.com> <87v89op6f2.fsf@rdklein.fr> Feedback-ID: 28384833:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.17; envelope-from=attila@lendvai.name; helo=mail-4317.proton.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 1DDAC23FD3 X-Spam-Score: -4.49 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx10.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.49 X-TUID: VrhxyuMofrIl > lines of code. I think hyper-focusing on syntax to make services > "nicer" might be the wrong approach here: You could greatly reduce the > complexity by making them procedures instead of syntax and still keep > most of the configuration readable to a great extent. i agree. in my experience, it's good practice in general to try to make a f= unctional API as convenient as possible, and if that is still too verbose o= r cumbersome, only then add a thin layer of syntactic abstractions that exp= and to code that uses this functional API. such code is much easier to work with, especially when debugging stuff inte= ractively (i.e. it's possible to recompile a function that will then affect= every place in the code where the macrology is used). the downside of generating countless macros is that they won't show up in b= acktraces, and they cannot be found when grep'ping the codebase, and as suc= h make the codebase much less approachable. the size of their expansion can= also become an issue if they are used often enough. --=20 =E2=80=A2 attila lendvai =E2=80=A2 PGP: 963F 5D5F 45C7 DFCD 0A39 -- =E2=80=9CThey muddy the water, to make it seem deep.=E2=80=9D =09=E2=80=94 Friedrich Nietzsche (1844=E2=80=931900)