From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Subject: Re: (Really) Free Software future Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 21:35:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: References: <20191010070606.GW27628@protected.rcdrun.com> <8561e1505c3d90c4deb8bdbfb1a20dced6e96066.camel@gnu.org> <3fe3d102-194d-8872-61ef-45337357ca4a@vapaa.xyz> <22d4a960b7ee45c48dcff0ca7afa7d93cf2b81d0.camel@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_594_1323647862.1571081759974" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41382) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iK68X-00041E-D6 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 15:36:10 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iK68V-0006cT-VU for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 15:36:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: <22d4a960b7ee45c48dcff0ca7afa7d93cf2b81d0.camel@gmail.com> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Jesse Gibbons Cc: Richard Stallman , Paul Smith , Guix-devel , Gnu System Discuss , Alexander Vdolainen ------=_Part_594_1323647862.1571081759974 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But that is achieved with forks of systemd tools and messing with the source code. How does that make GNOME independent from Systemd? Fannys Oct 14, 2019, 20:59 by jgibbons2357@gmail.com: > On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 21:32 +0300, Alexander Vdolainen wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> On 10/14/19 9:16 PM, Paul Smith wrote: >> > On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 18:52 +0200, Svante Signell wrote: >> > > On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 12:13 -0400, Paul Smith wrote: >> > > > On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 12:07 +0200, Svante Signell wrote: >> >> (skipped) >> >> > For example, no aspect of either GNOME or systemd are proprietary, >> > using the common meaning of the term. Also, "lock-in" usually refers >> > to software that prevents users from switching to an alternative; GNOME >> > and systemd are certainly not lock-in. >> >> I'm afraid but I cannot agree with that. Actually with systemd design >> you have 'lock-in', because in some cases you need to modify a source >> code to support systemd (or you will face something like this - >> https://superuser.com/questions/1372963/how-do-i-keep-systemd-from-killing-my-tmux-sessions). >> Also, a lot of system daemons has eaten by systemd (and to make it works >> some forks were created like eudev). >> Finally, correct me if I wrong, but GNOME 3.8 and newer requires systemd >> to run, it's a lock-in isn't it ? >> > I'm assuming by GNOME you mean gnome-shell. Please let me know if I'm > incorrect. > > Guix has packaged gnome-shell 3.30.2 but has not packaged systemd. > If systemd was a requirement for gnome-shell guix would have had to package > systemd in order for gnome-shell to compile and/or work, by definition of > requirement. > gnome-shell builds and works just fine in guix. > It follows that systemd is not a prerequisite for gnome-shell 3.30.2. > > Please consider this a friendly correction :) > ------=_Part_594_1323647862.1571081759974 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
But that is achieved with forks of = systemd tools and messing with the source code.
How does that make GNOME independent from Systemd?

Fannys
<= br>

Oct 14, 2019, 20:59 by jgibbons2357@gmail.com:
<= /div>
On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 21:32 +0300, Alexander Vdolainen wrote:
Hi,

On 10/14/19 9:16 PM, Paul Smith wrote:
> On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 18:52 +0200, Svante Si= gnell wrote:
> > On = Mon, 2019-10-14 at 12:13 -0400, Paul Smith wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 12:07 +0200, S= vante Signell wrote:

<= /div>
(skipped)

> For example, no aspect of either GNOME or systemd are proprietary= ,
> using the common me= aning of the term. Also, "lock-in" usually refers
> to software that prevents users from switchin= g to an alternative; GNOME
> and systemd are certainly not lock-in.

I'm af= raid but I cannot agree with that. Actually with systemd design
you have 'lock-in', because in some c= ases you need to modify a source
code to support systemd (or you will face something like this -
<= /div>
https://superuser.com/question= s/1372963/how-do-i-keep-systemd-from-killing-my-tmux-sessions).
Also, a lot of system daemons has eat= en by systemd (and to make it works
some forks were created like eudev).
Finally, correct me if I wrong, but GNOME 3.8 and newe= r requires systemd
to run,= it's a lock-in isn't it ?
I'm assuming by GNOME you mean gnome-shell. Please let me kno= w if I'm
incorrect.

Guix has packaged gnome-shell 3.30.2 but has not packaged= systemd.
If systemd was a= requirement for gnome-shell guix would have had to package
systemd in order for gnome-shell to compi= le and/or work, by definition of
requirement.
gnome-= shell builds and works just fine in guix.
It follows that systemd is not a prerequisite for gnome-she= ll 3.30.2.

Please consider this a friendly correcti= on :)

------=_Part_594_1323647862.1571081759974--