Software Heritage & Guix

Software Heritage & Guix

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello!

I’ve written a post on the Software Heritage support in Guix:

  https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive/

Happy reading!  :-)

Ludo’.

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[John Soo]

I didn’t even know! That’s so cool.  I love guix! Thanks Ludo!

> On Mar 29, 2019, at 9:05 AM, Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello!
> 
> I’ve written a post on the Software Heritage support in Guix:
> 
>  https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive/
> 
> Happy reading!  :-)
> 
> Ludo’.
> 

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[sirgazil]

El 29/03/19 a las 11:05 a. m., Ludovic Courtès escribió:
> Hello!
> 
> I’ve written a post on the Software Heritage support in Guix:
> 
>    https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive/
> 
> Happy reading!  :-)
> 
> Ludo’.
> 


Awesome :)


-- 
Luis Felipe López Acevedo
http://sirgazil.bitbucket.io/

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[Pjotr Prins]

Brilliant. One of those things where people don't realise they need it
until they hit it. I have hit it many times. Some projects even have
it as a policy to remove old links to code.

Pj.

On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 05:05:10PM +0100, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> I’ve written a post on the Software Heritage support in Guix:
> 
>   https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive/
> 
> Happy reading!  :-)
> 
> Ludo’.
> 

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[znavko]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 647 bytes --]

Very useful for learning and deeping.
First distributions provisioned a base for working.
GuixSD provisions tools for hacking on meta-level.
Containers, virtual-machines, sharing of environment, time-back machine, think it's important for industry 4.0.


Mar 29, 2019, 4:05 PM by ludo@gnu.org:

> Hello!
>
> I’ve written a post on the Software Heritage support in Guix:
>
>  > https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive <https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive/>
>
> Happy reading!  :-)
>
> Ludo’.
>


[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1693 bytes --]

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[Pjotr Prins]

On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 04:51:57PM +0100, znavko@tutanota.com wrote:
>    Very useful for learning and deeping.
> 
>    First distributions provisioned a base for working.
> 
>    GuixSD provisions tools for hacking on meta-level.
> 
>    Containers, virtual-machines, sharing of environment, time-back
>    machine, think it's important for industry 4.0.

Especially for science where we want to reproduce results from even 10
years ago. Virtually impossible right now.

Pj.

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[znavko]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 601 bytes --]

I've translated into Russian here https://www.opennet.ru/tips/info/3100.shtml <https://www.opennet.ru/tips/info/3100.shtml>
It is interesting occupation to study and translate something when I have free time.


Mar 29, 2019, 4:05 PM by ludo@gnu.org:

> Hello!
>
> I’ve written a post on the Software Heritage support in Guix:
>
>  > https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive <https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive/>
>
> Happy reading!  :-)
>
> Ludo’.
>


[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1564 bytes --]

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[swedebugia]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 567 bytes --]

On 2019-03-30 19:03, znavko@tutanota.com wrote:
> I've translated into Russian here
> https://www.opennet.ru/tips/info/3100.shtml
> It is interesting occupation to study and translate something when I
> have free time.

Nice. I like translating too :)

--

Thanks Ludo, I liked the article.
Maybe this could be spread in more places like slashdot, reddit,
wikinews etc. to reach a wider audience.

Is it ok if I request for an interview in Wikinews with you Ludo?
https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Request_an_interview

-- 
Cheers Swedebugia


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 228 bytes --]

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[mikadoZero]

This is a nice initiative.

From reading the post I found it unclear what this Software Heritage
group is and what it's relation to Guix is.

Would it make sense for the "Software Heritage" to be decentralized
through free peer to peer software similar to what is discussed here: 

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2019-03/msg00135.html

https://issues.guix.info/issue/33899

Potential benefits being organization and geographic redundancy.

Ludovic Courtès writes:

> Hello!
>
> I’ve written a post on the Software Heritage support in Guix:
>
>   https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive/
>
> Happy reading!  :-)
>
> Ludo’.

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[znavko]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 950 bytes --]

Hello! Looks like reproducible builds are like videos on video hosting. You may share your screencast or videos, the others can see your screen exactly. But there are limitations: you need to have an account on exactly one video hosting. There were challenges in Ludovic Courtès article. Releases tarballs are not the same as version control revisions: tarballs may have `configure` scripts and developers signatures. What to choose for using in certain reproducible build?

There is in need a help from FSF for definition of standards. What do you think?


Mar 29, 2019, 4:05 PM by ludo@gnu.org:

> Hello!
>
> I’ve written a post on the Software Heritage support in Guix:
>
>  > https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive <https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive/>
>
> Happy reading!  :-)
>
> Ludo’.
>


[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1945 bytes --]

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi znavko,

<znavko@tutanota.com> skribis:

> I've translated into Russian here https://www.opennet.ru/tips/info/3100.shtml

Much appreciated, thank you!

Ludo’.

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[Ludovic Courtès]

swedebugia <swedebugia@riseup.net> skribis:

> Thanks Ludo, I liked the article.
> Maybe this could be spread in more places like slashdot, reddit,
> wikinews etc. to reach a wider audience.

Sure, go ahead.  :-)

It reached LWN, which is nice!  <https://lwn.net/Articles/784401/>.

> Is it ok if I request for an interview in Wikinews with you Ludo?
> https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Request_an_interview

I’m not sure what that entails but we could schedule that if you want.

Thanks for your interest,
Ludo’.

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi,

mikadoZero <mikadozero@yandex.com> skribis:

> From reading the post I found it unclear what this Software Heritage
> group is and what it's relation to Guix is.

Software Heritage is a non-profit currently hosted by Inria (I work for
Inria, but I’m not affiliated with Software Heritage.)  I know the
people who work on Software Heritage and I’m sympathetic to their goals,
but other than that there’s no connection between them and Guix.  Their
web site explains their mission and goals better than I do.

The archive they maintain is centralized (although it has mirrors).
Long-term archival is something that cannot be left to peer-to-peer
networks: it’s something where you want availability guarantee, whereas
peer-to-peer storage networks usually replicate content that’s popular,
while unpopular content disappears.

Ludo’.

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[znavko]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 785 bytes --]

Do not think it is necessary, but may be it will have sense for SWH team.
In Russia their ip 217.70.184.38 is blocked by Roskomnadzor (this is a ministry of communications and Internet), so it is not opening. 
https://reestr.rublacklist.net/search/?q=217.70.184.38 <https://reestr.rublacklist.net/search/?q=217.70.184.38>

Are their servers all right? Are they in blacklists also anywhere?


Mar 29, 2019, 4:05 PM by ludo@gnu.org:

> Hello!
>
> I’ve written a post on the Software Heritage support in Guix:
>
>  > https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive <https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive/>
>
> Happy reading!  :-)
>
> Ludo’.
>


[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1880 bytes --]

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[mikadoZero]

Ludovic Courtès writes:

> ... 
> Long-term archival is something that cannot be left to peer-to-peer
> networks: it’s something where you want availability guarantee, whereas
> peer-to-peer storage networks usually replicate content that’s popular,
> while unpopular content disappears.
> ...

As IPFS is already being discussed on the Guix mailing list I looked into
it as an example of how it deals with this "availability guarantee".

There is a relevant section in their documentation on pinning services
which seems to address this directly:

https://docs.ipfs.io/guides/concepts/pinning

So maybe peer to peer data storage networks can do long-term archival.

I am just using IPFS as an example there are alternatives to it.

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[Chris Marusich]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 302 bytes --]

Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:

> I’ve written a post on the Software Heritage support in Guix:
>
>   https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive/
>
> Happy reading!  :-)

Really cool!  Thank you for sharing.

-- 
Chris

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 832 bytes --]

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[Giovanni Biscuolo]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1206 bytes --]

Hello Guix!

mikadoZero <mikadozero@yandex.com> writes:

> Ludovic Courtès writes:
>
>> ... 
>> Long-term archival is something that cannot be left to peer-to-peer
>> networks:

I disagree here: P2P/decentralized archival is a _resilient_ archival
method and is _not_ in contrast with long-term: a group of users
(including institutions at various levels) can decide that some or all
of a "decentralized Software Heritage" archive deserves availability
guarantees :-)

[...]

> There is a relevant section in their documentation on pinning services
> which seems to address this directly:
>
> https://docs.ipfs.io/guides/concepts/pinning
>
> So maybe peer to peer data storage networks can do long-term archival.

so maybe Software Heritage could have a decentralized storage model
instead of a centralized one... but this have direct implications on
what content swh can store (I mean non-free sofware)

anyway decentralized storage (IPFS/gnu:net)is already in Guix radar,
could be in swh radar too :-)

"decentralized software heritage" could even be an interesting
application on top secushare :-O

thanks! Gio

-- 
Giovanni Biscuolo

Xelera IT Infrastructures

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 832 bytes --]

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi!

Giovanni Biscuolo <g@xelera.eu> skribis:

> mikadoZero <mikadozero@yandex.com> writes:
>
>> Ludovic Courtès writes:
>>
>>> ... 
>>> Long-term archival is something that cannot be left to peer-to-peer
>>> networks:
>
> I disagree here: P2P/decentralized archival is a _resilient_ archival
> method and is _not_ in contrast with long-term: a group of users
> (including institutions at various levels) can decide that some or all
> of a "decentralized Software Heritage" archive deserves availability
> guarantees :-)

My point is: the availability guarantee stems from the commitment of a
non-profit to provide the infrastructure and to sustain it.  Whether
it’s IPFS or something else doesn’t matter much.  It’s largely an
organizational matter more than a technical one.

Ludo’.

Re: Software Heritage & Guix

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello,

Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> skribis:

> I’ve written a post on the Software Heritage support in Guix:
>
>   https://gnu.org/s/guix/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-a-long-term-source-code-archive/

As a followup, the Software Heritage folks posted an article on their
blog:

  https://www.softwareheritage.org/2019/04/18/software-heritage-and-gnu-guix-join-forces-to-enable-long-term-reproducibility/

Notice the neat logo blend.  :-)

Ludo’.