From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id //naII+P+2MULAEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2023 17:57:51 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id AOFTII+P+2P+NQEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2023 17:57:51 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C13C12D for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2023 17:57:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pWKKt-00046M-0g; Sun, 26 Feb 2023 11:57:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pWKGh-0002uc-Ha for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Feb 2023 11:52:59 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pWKGe-0007Wf-Il for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Feb 2023 11:52:59 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F1E32400FC for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2023 17:52:53 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1677430373; bh=yNkZAXSI3EVOAeiv8nJf5PDX0J3rawQiaVuC/Jto1d0=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:From; b=PnDaBSBD8HtJNpuFo3zv2W/nxBj7GZtB8LUCMMUR1YLYpfB5yhiOepNoj3SnA2+7p GabeYs/QW0GO5CijwQYX8IJLj3DEakxzIQsJSKurONDZldpjlmCy1fVJP28NcybP8i cB0KLvLN4jg4gOLZxOoEEh7ibIjSggR2ho0bRCaeaBUvaFfrgs6Vc9R5JM7d+piDVV WfZU3/NoXDbASUQwHjMtsVDrpPwYtAfxfAgKTovcRl94pWG/pHUykQyQCABtcfx3+E tCYHkj/rbAwaqGAaQIJjUjmCWBU85rFrwDpR47TT5RC+gv3nZvF3TOOoRQ9q63JWeN ZG8a9Ki1ISvdA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4PPqSN1V9tz9rxG; Sun, 26 Feb 2023 17:52:51 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 16:52:47 +0000 From: Kyle To: guix-devel@gnu.org, Pjotr Prins , Guix Devel Subject: Re: Projects for the Google Summer of Code In-Reply-To: <20230226073836.daeias6fqowdsq45@thebird.nl> References: <20230226073836.daeias6fqowdsq45@thebird.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=----J36P5IPC529B40A5Z2N1CRNO9JZRCW Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=kyle@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 11:57:17 -0500 X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=PnDaBSBD; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1677430671; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=dFC5OGnAJTUznAPN598qZw9CJLoOIbtlfBbmDRpAbjmHBZt/rnXnFtzluohHfqkesgBgna 2GqXN5Ies2TL3Wfe6DshSIkxjQeaRhxR6viojI8ksNdu61fJ733MFqpYKxzr1xWV0Q+Gdq GVaRNJIjXuN+OOQE2pCwExSVjnGeqxqooAbpWc94/p50dPeGzNqdeAG9qVat7PlBeCEcsW xzqdPF8oK2LZ9CADowfcy02W91qTRmYt94MoFPCEmCX21Bp97SrEG9yy+/k6u64rcvwPlo Bpvj47qajEybtjHnVvcBJXTyxRg7SIAYwKKOJHn1U9m2+GJstfSEsh33p7s/lA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1677430671; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=mBQR572XLEua+eolCGFfXZOLGp+bp/wpBuGOSOtp5FE=; b=RHUjUN5XVC5ykl/rokFSmLKK2f9674bZsES+2ej8cFXRElo3a2DGsMpLbDoNgp6dInujlF pRn+pNXQl7W2IB5HaFiBczy9Jkz1s0sp4qKXedB0s0vvSUGczuXW60i4AREklklf6I55bZ zOSgOyCpdkV0NuLmeU1+hRooZnvEMqN/p02bSQkO5RrRF/cdScyf/HF9bY3ElfxqBsN/ai 6rRZiUadYQ56L3ulApCtJNdbslZu9r97IZuoplGM7mLjZLi6Zb2t+GwurjrGY8xp/wlF9B ztRUi8p8Zetzh1/Az64xq0PAEvzYbZ6EI1/DgWRa+XmQ5vkwNDQMpfRWs6iOxA== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=PnDaBSBD; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Spam-Score: -6.68 X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.68 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 4C13C12D X-TUID: yvRNWWu9fwox ------J36P5IPC529B40A5Z2N1CRNO9JZRCW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Guix, I have been reading on this list of Andreas struggles updating python pac= kages as an outsider to that community=2E If python programmers are not sti= cking around, then that may be sign they could use more help=2E Python provides access to an unparalleled amount of functionality which gr= eatly empowers users of free software=2E I want that functionality in Guix = for everyone to benefit from=2E No one person can do it all themselves=2E T= here needs to be a healthy community=2E I personally would love to see more support for helping scientists port th= eir existing workflows from conda environments to actually reproducible con= tainers, e=2Eg=2E meeting them where they are and giving them more options = for working with older versions of python3=2E One idea might be to write a conda importer which looks at the versions of= software in the resulting environment and tries to make feasible package v= ariants of make a manifest which matches the existing conda environment as = close as possible=2E Simon thought often the python version usually didn't = matter, but it makes users a lot less woosy to stick with software combinat= ions they have already tested=2E Another idea would be to create a python package for working with Guix mor= e directly from inside their preferred language environment instead of thro= ugh the shell=2E I also wouldn't mind it if such a thing existed for R as w= ell=2E Both python and R extensively interface with C=2E On the R side ther= e is an RcppGuile proof of concept package for example=2E Maybe there could= be a project around curating a standard non-bash interface of guile script= s for these and other interactive languages? The rational is that users in = these ecosystems often don't have much familiarity with shell programming= =2E Learning both shell and scheme at the same time can be very intimidatin= g and demands a large upfront effort before the value case is clear=2E As an enthusiastic beginner, I want to help as much as I can to make Guix = better, but I am not an expert=2E I just wanted to throw those ideas out t= here for you real experts to consider and maybe translate into more interes= ting technical goals you think would help the python community (and other c= ommunities) become more engaged=2E Cheers, Kyle On February 26, 2023 2:38:36 AM EST, Pjotr Prins wrote: >To follow up on G=C3=A1bor: we excited to announce that the GNU project i= s >selected as an organisation for the Google Summer of Code (GSoc)=2E GSoC >attracts talent and we have some people in our group who came in >through that route! I have done 10 years of GSoC and it has paid off >in my projects=2E You can still add ideas to: > >https://libreplanet=2Eorg/wiki/Group:Guix/GSoC-2023 > >Currently only pukkamustard's project is listed, feel free to add >more=2E You can register/login yourself=2E Make sure to add below >information - title, email, hours etc=2E Tasks can be challenging - you >get more interesting applicants that way=2E Also add simple tasks, that >helps attract learners in Lisp, for example=2E > >The overall GNU project proposals, including GNU Mes, are listed at: > >https://www=2Egnu=2Eorg/software/soc-projects/ideas-2023=2Ehtml > >People are already inquiring, so today is a good day to add your idea=2E > >When it comes to mentoring, in my experience it takes a few hours a >week that have a decent ROI=2E Before GSoC starts we'll have a get >together to share experiences and ideas=2E > >Pj=2E > >On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 07:21:51PM +0100, G=C3=A1bor Boskovits wrote: >> Hello Guix, >> Here follows a short summary on where we are regarding the internshi= p >> programs=2E >> GSoC: >> This year the GNU Project was applying again for GSoC, and >> we got the word yesterday that the GNU Project was accepted=2E >> Thanks to Jose E=2E Marches for taking care of this=2E >> This basically means that we should have a look at our ideas page, >> and run a quick health check on the proposals, enriching them with >> the following information where needed: >> (quoted from the mail on the summer of code list) >> + Title, and description=2E >> + Skills required=2E >> + A mentor with an email address=2E >> + Whether it is a 175 hour or a 350 hour project=2E >> + Difficulty: easy, medium or hard=2E >> + CLEAR contact method for interested students=2E >> From now to March 19, be ready to be contacted by contributors, in >> whatever contact means you specified in your ideas page=2E Starting= in >> March 20, contributors will start submitting their proposals through >> the >> program website=2E >> (end quote) >> Next week I am on holiday, so I asked Pjotr Prins to take over the >> initial >> coordination tasks until I am back on 6th of March, 2023=2E >> Outreachy: >> Coming up with a working solution for funding here is far from trivi= al=2E >> Thanks to Andreas Enge and Simon Touriner now all stakeholders are >> involved and >> we are working on a solution=2E I don't want to bore the list with t= he >> details >> here, and I will send an update once we have an agreement on how to >> handle it=2E >> Thanks to everyone who is helping this effort=2E >> Best regards, >> g_bor > ------J36P5IPC529B40A5Z2N1CRNO9JZRCW Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Guix,

I have been reading on this lis= t of Andreas struggles updating python packages as an outsider to that comm= unity=2E If python programmers are not sticking around, then that may be si= gn they could use more help=2E

Python provides access to an unparall= eled amount of functionality which greatly empowers users of free software= =2E I want that functionality in Guix for everyone to benefit from=2E No on= e person can do it all themselves=2E There needs to be a healthy community= =2E

I personally would love to see more support for helping scientis= ts port their existing workflows from conda environments to actually reprod= ucible containers, e=2Eg=2E meeting them where they are and giving them mor= e options for working with older versions of python3=2E

One idea mig= ht be to write a conda importer which looks at the versions of software in = the resulting environment and tries to make feasible package variants of ma= ke a manifest which matches the existing conda environment as close as poss= ible=2E Simon thought often the python version usually didn't matter, but i= t makes users a lot less woosy to stick with software combinations they hav= e already tested=2E

Another idea would be to create a python package= for working with Guix more directly from inside their preferred language e= nvironment instead of through the shell=2E I also wouldn't mind it if such = a thing existed for R as well=2E Both python and R extensively interface wi= th C=2E On the R side there is an RcppGuile proof of concept package for ex= ample=2E Maybe there could be a project around curating a standard non-bash= interface of guile scripts for these and other interactive languages? The = rational is that users in these ecosystems often don't have much familiarit= y with shell programming=2E Learning both shell and scheme at the same time= can be very intimidating and demands a large upfront effort before the val= ue case is clear=2E

As an enthusiastic beginner, I want to help as m= uch as I can to make Guix better, but I=C2=A0 am not an expert=2E I just wa= nted to throw those ideas out there for you real experts to consider and ma= ybe translate into more interesting technical goals you think would help th= e python community (and other communities) become more engaged=2E

Ch= eers,
Kyle



On February 26, 202= 3 2:38:36 AM EST, Pjotr Prins <pjotr=2Epublic12@thebird=2Enl> wrote:<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; bord= er-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> 
To follow up on G=C3=A1bor: we excited =
to announce that the GNU project is
selected as an organisation for the =
Google Summer of Code (GSoc)=2E GSoC
attracts talent and we have some pe=
ople in our group who came in
through that route! I have done 10 years o=
f GSoC and it has paid off
in my projects=2E You can still add ideas to:=


htt=
ps://libreplanet=2Eorg/wiki/Group:Guix/GSoC-2023

Currently only =
pukkamustard's project is listed, feel free to add
more=2E You can regis=
ter/login yourself=2E Make sure to add below
information - title, email,=
 hours etc=2E Tasks can be challenging - you
get more interesting applic=
ants that way=2E Also add simple tasks, that
helps attract learners in L=
isp, for example=2E

The overall GNU project proposals, including GNU=
 Mes, are listed at:

https://www=2Egnu=2Eorg/software/soc-projects/=
ideas-2023=2Ehtml

People are already inquiring, so today is a go=
od day to add your idea=2E

When it comes to mentoring, in my experie=
nce it takes a few hours a
week that have a decent ROI=2E Before GSoC st=
arts we'll have a get
together to share experiences and ideas=2E

=
Pj=2E

On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 07:21:51PM +0100, G=C3=A1bor Boskovits=
 wrote:
Hello Guix,
=
Here follows a short summary on where we are regarding the internship
pr=
ograms=2E
GSoC:
This year the GNU Project was applying again for GSoC=
, and
we got the word yesterday that the GNU Project was accepted=2E
=
Thanks to Jose E=2E Marches for taking care of this=2E
This basically me=
ans that we should have a look at our ideas page,
and run a quick health=
 check on the proposals, enriching them with
the following information w=
here needed:
(quoted from the mail on the summer of code list)
  + Ti=
tle, and description=2E
  + Skills required=2E
  + A mentor with an e=
mail address=2E
  + Whether it is a 175 hour or a 350 hour project=2E  + Difficulty: easy, medium or hard=2E
  + CLEAR contact method for in=
terested students=2E
From now to March 19, be ready to be contacted by c=
ontributors, in
whatever contact means you specified in your ideas page=
=2E  Starting in
March 20, contributors will start submitting their prop=
osals through
the
program website=2E
(end quote)
Next week I am=
 on holiday, so I asked Pjotr Prins to take over the
initial
coordina=
tion tasks until I am back on 6th of March, 2023=2E
Outreachy:
Coming=
 up with a working solution for funding here is far from trivial=2E
Than=
ks to Andreas Enge and Simon Touriner now all stakeholders are
involved =
and
we are working on a solution=2E I don't want to bore the list with t=
he
details
here, and I will send an update once we have an agreement =
on how to
handle it=2E
Thanks to everyone who is helping this effort=
=2E
Best regards,
g_bor

= ------J36P5IPC529B40A5Z2N1CRNO9JZRCW--