From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: =?UTF-8?B?YWzDrXJpbyBleW5n?= Subject: Re: MAME emulator is giving incentive to use non-free software Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 12:15:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87egapyhih.fsf@elephly.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43220) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1alxyp-0006Z1-Qb for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Apr 2016 08:15:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1alxyo-0004i8-KN for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Apr 2016 08:15:11 -0400 Received: from mail-wm0-x242.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::242]:33602) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1alxyo-0004hz-Dv for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Apr 2016 08:15:10 -0400 Received: by mail-wm0-x242.google.com with SMTP id i204so4150913wmd.0 for ; Fri, 01 Apr 2016 05:15:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87egapyhih.fsf@elephly.net> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: rekado@elephly.net Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, gnu-linux-libre@nongnu.org On 4/1/16, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > al=C3=ADrio eyng writes: >> Isaac David: >>> However in the last few days I have >>>seen many arguments showing there are yet more valid uses I hadn't >>>imagined, like learning from the source code and testing portability >>>without leaving your comfy libre OS. >> source code is out of question for a distro, unless you want to >> compile and execute it (or just have a package that copy the source >> code); but developing without a game is like developing without a test >> suite... > I don=E2=80=99t understand this. I regularly look at the sources of prog= rammes > I find interesting. how do you find it interesting without executing it? > You don=E2=80=99t have to compile and execute it to find source code usef= ul. agreed; but as i argued, if you never will execute, just have a package that copy the source code or not include in the distro > You don=E2=80=99t > have to hack on the emulator, but you can hack on an existing free game > or write your own. agreed a free game would be allowed by conservative approach as i described a free game would only be disallowed by extremely conservative approach as i described, that i reject >> expecting the user to evaluate if some game is free is making it >> unnecessarily difficult to remain in freedom >> making game packages/executables and not emulator packages/executables >> would allow all know good uses and still signal the user to be >> cautious with other games > > This limits the use of the emulator. You seem to think that an emulator > is only useful as a runtime dependency for a game, but I and others in > this thread disagree. i want to allow all good uses, they all can have exceptions i believe the best way to _actively protect_ freedom is with a policy with some compromise, this don't mean the exceptions justify changing the rule you seem to think i'm defending extremely conservative, that i reject most people in this thread seem only choosing between extremely conservative or extremely liberal, i reject extremely conservative; so i also would prefer extremely liberal, if that was a binary choice; i'm arguing it isn't i believe the _main_ use of a emulator is as a runtime dependency for a game, and we should apply the same reasoning behind ndiswrapper "with one exception, all ndis drivers are nonfree--and the one free one is a windows port of a native linux driver. so right now, this isn't useful for anything besides using nonfree software"[1] obviously i can say i want to look at ndiswrapper source code, and this should be allowed but this don't justify including ndiswrapper executable in a free distro [1]https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_= Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines