From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: "Thompson, David" Subject: Re: Giving up on RubyGems Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 08:43:36 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87eggpya7p.fsf@izanagi.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20151021094605.GA20582@thebird.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45716) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zosk0-0000gk-Pj for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 08:43:42 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zosjx-0005ZB-Hm for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 08:43:40 -0400 Received: from mail-yk0-f176.google.com ([209.85.160.176]:35609) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zosjx-0005Yz-Dc for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 08:43:37 -0400 Received: by ykaz22 with SMTP id z22so47564146yka.2 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 05:43:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20151021094605.GA20582@thebird.nl> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Pjotr Prins Cc: guix-devel Hi Pjotr, This cheered me up! On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 5:46 AM, Pjotr Prins wrote: > Hi Dave, > > You know I am not so much interested in fixing upstream concepts which > appear to be mixed up (indeed). I think you are heroic for trying to > discuss this with the Rubygem system authors. Kudos for trying. Thanks! > Still: GNU Guix Rubygem support is a major achievement. > > Fact is that: > > 1. We have successfully packaged rubygems for guix in a simple and > elegant way. I use them daily. > > 2. Enough tests are in there to make sure things work - in fact I was > mighty surprised that Nokogiri works on ARM+MIPS, despite the fact > that we haven't gotten the Nokogiri test system to work - and that > it works was tested by virtue of my bio-blastxmlparser gem which > *has* working tests. > > 3. Rubygems does not dictate how people package their gems. In fact, > if need be, we can also repackage into rubygems and deploy those. > We may even influence the upstream authors. All good points. You're right. I shouldn't think that we've accomplished nothing, because we have done a lot. > I agree the Rubygem situation is not ideal and the maybe Rubygems > people are misguided in their architectural choices. But I think they > will probably converge towards our ideas in time. When a choice, such > as no tests, or using git fuzzily, starts to bite, they will want to > revert on that. I also love your argumentation that they should > provide the source code next to the 'binary' distribution. Totally > valid and in line with most licenses in use, including the Ruby > license. Maybe the FSF should threaten a case. Perhaps I could find a gem that is GPL licensed whose archive doesn't include the corresponding source code, but it seems like finding a needle in a haystack. It probably doesn't exist. > With Linux distributions and languages you can just see people > reinventing the wheel (npm, pip, docker, firefox anyone?). It is > amazing how much energy goes into all the combined packaging systems > when they could simply be using Guix ;) > > Still, it is a form of evolution. Each his own (imperfect) niche. > > For us, I think we have to be purely pragmatic. I love the current > Ruby build system in Guix and will use it for those gems that allow > inclusion. It has to be source (anyway) to build against the Guix > ruby-build-system. > > And when it fails we find some other way. It is simply software, i.e., > we can always fix it. Yes, agreed. We will evaluate on a case-by-case basis whether or not the gem archive on rubygems.org meets our standards. I will write a patch sometime to add the 'gitify' phase back to the Ruby build system as an optional phase for cases where we need to build from a tarball or git checkout. > So, yes, I think it is wise to give up on the rubygem authors for now. > > But please don't stop loving - the people who use - Ruby :) I won't. Thanks for cheering me up, Pjotr. :) - Dave