From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Catonano Subject: Re: My recent appalling behaviour on this list. Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 16:09:43 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20170323054600.GA18841@jocasta.intra> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1146a3f8a4c72c054bf33e14 Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46717) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ctalm-0002Qb-Qc for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Mar 2017 10:09:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ctall-0000Y2-9Z for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Mar 2017 10:09:46 -0400 Received: from mail-wr0-x22b.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22b]:34118) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ctalk-0000WI-VA for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Mar 2017 10:09:45 -0400 Received: by mail-wr0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id l43so63647146wre.1 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2017 07:09:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170323054600.GA18841@jocasta.intra> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: John Darrington Cc: guix-devel --001a1146a3f8a4c72c054bf33e14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 John, 2017-03-23 6:46 GMT+01:00 John Darrington : > > In my mistaken belief that ng0 was trying to impose upon the world new > rules of English grammar, I considered this to be an assault on > freedom of speech. I told ng0 I would refuse to comply, having > completely misunderstood (and failed to clarify) the request. > > Ng0's angry response, I attributed to wounded pride, an over-inflated > ego and a childish temperament on ng0's part. I now see that this was > totally unfounded. Under the circumstances, ng0 had every right to > feel extremely insulted and very angry at what I said. The people who > sprang to his defence are commendable. > > [...] I apologise to ng0 without reservation. > as far as I'm concerned, I appreciate the apology and the clarification. Admittedly, I also had misunderstood your motivations. Knowing that I was wrong about those is a relief. In this regard, I'd like to point out that you observed how these gender based objections are often raised by male cisgender people about mislabeling transgender women but not as often by cisgender women about mislabeling transgender men. Was that just an unfortunate rhetoric tool ? Or did you already run in such clashes in the past, maybe in different communities ? If it was a rhetoric accident, then ok But if you already run into this this kind of misunderstanding before, my suggestion is to go to those people and clarify your motivation to them too In fact, mistaking your motivations for political ones can turn out to be bitter to lgbt people. Some say that this could hurt software projects in keeping some people away, but I prefer to focus on feelings and moods. Life is what it is, there's no need to let badly formulated sentences to leave back more sour than it is necessary If I ever have cause to discuss ng0 in the third person, I will of course > do so using their pronoun of choice. > Please, remember not offering alternative views when ng0 asks people to use the singular they/them for them ;-) > > I apologise too, to the rest of this list for wasting time and resources, > on a completely unnecessary flame-war, which could have been avoided > if only I had fully read a post before replying. > The good part of this is that the community as a whole had an opportunity to elaborate the issue and some important points were made in the process. The appropriateness of the discussion for the mailing list, the invitation to read about the subject, the statement of priorities for this project. I want to thank Ludo and Ricardo. Their position is not easy, managing conflicts is a thankless job, probably more so than reviewing patches ;-) But in my view they did the right thing. --001a1146a3f8a4c72c054bf33e14 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
John,

2017-03-23 6:46 GMT+01:00 John Darrington &= lt;john@d= arrington.wattle.id.au>:

In my mistaken belief that ng0 was trying to impose upon the world new
rules of English grammar, I considered this to be an assault on
freedom of speech.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I told ng0 I would refuse to comply, having<= br> completely misunderstood (and failed to clarify) the request.

Ng0's angry response, I attributed to wounded pride, an over-inflated ego and a childish temperament on ng0's part.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I now see tha= t this was
totally unfounded.=C2=A0 Under the circumstances, ng0 had every right to feel extremely insulted and very angry at what I said.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The peop= le who
sprang to his defence are commendable.


[...]


I apologise to ng0 without reservation.

as far as = I'm concerned, I appreciate the apology and the clarification.

<= /div>
Admittedly, I also had misunderstood your motivations. Knowing th= at I was wrong about those is a relief.

In this regard, I= 'd like to point out that you observed how these gender based objection= s are often raised by male cisgender people about mislabeling transgender w= omen but not as often by cisgender women about mislabeling transgender men.=

Was that just an unfortunate rhetoric tool ?

Or did you already run in such clashes in the past, maybe in differe= nt communities ?

If it was a rhetoric accident, then ok<= br>
But if you already run into this this kind of misundersta= nding before, my suggestion is to go to those people and clarify your motiv= ation to them too

In fact, mistaking your motivations for= political ones can turn out to be bitter to lgbt people.

Some say that this could hurt software projects in keeping some people awa= y, but I prefer to focus on feelings and moods.
=C2=A0
Life is what i= t is, there's no need to let badly formulated sentences to leave back m= ore sour than it is necessary

If I ever have cause to discuss ng0 in the third person, I will of course do so using their pronoun of choice.

Pl= ease, remember not offering alternative views when ng0 asks people to use t= he singular they/them for them ;-)
=C2=A0

I apologise too, to the rest of this list for wasting time and resources, on a completely unnecessary flame-war, which could have been avoided
if only I had fully read a post before replying.

<= /div>
The good part of this is that the community as a whole had an opp= ortunity to elaborate the issue and some important points were made in the = process.

The appropriateness of the discussion for the ma= iling list, the invitation to read about the subject, the statement of prio= rities for this project.

I want to thank Ludo = and Ricardo. Their position is not easy, managing conflicts is a thankless = job, probably more so than reviewing patches ;-)

But in m= y view they did the right thing.
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