From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Wilson Bustos Subject: Re: Joint statement on the GNU Project Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2019 13:46:44 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87ftk4hbhu.fsf@gnu.org> <8eaaa9a2-a5ff-b64a-48bf-954150fecc63@gmail.com> <20191012130631.GJ15371@protected.rcdrun.com> <20191012133829.hep5xrh6blzpldxo@pelzflorian.localdomain> <004bdc31-c191-0459-509c-dcffbda327ab@frantovo.cz> <20191012172207.GV15371@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000093c52b0594ba38f5" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39540) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iJLTp-0000nq-EF for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Oct 2019 13:47:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iJLTn-00049M-BT for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Oct 2019 13:47:01 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-x42f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::42f]:37889) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iJLTm-00048j-UL for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Oct 2019 13:46:59 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id h195so7964780pfe.5 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2019 10:46:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: P Cc: "guix-devel@gnu.org" , Jean Louis --00000000000093c52b0594ba38f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable P, The problem is when that politics gets extreme. For example at the point to change the rules of a human language just for politics reason. The guixSD Spanish manual for example says : 'la usuaria' to refer to every user But in Spanish 'la usuaria' only refers to a female user, and 'el usuario' refer to every user, a male or both to be more exact. The rules to create a gender neutral language in the manual in some languages as the Spanish is not possible, because there is not way to achieve that in Spanish at least. But also the the new rule is creating a 'feminist languaje' due to 'la usuaria' is only for woman's The reason to do that is only political, the argument is the woman's feels not get represented when you says 'el usuario'. But in the real world, only a feminist person can say that. The translation work should be translate a lenguaje to another, not create a new languaje' to accommodate your political ideas. Don't you think that is extreme? Regards El s=C3=A1b., 12 de octubre de 2019 13:37, P escri= bi=C3=B3: > On Saturday, October 12, 2019 5:22 PM, Jean Louis > wrote: > > > - Franti=C5=A1ek Ku=C4=8Dera konference@frantovo.cz [2019-10-12 19:13= ]: > > > > > Dne 12. 10. 19 v 15:38 pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) napsal(a): > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 03:06:31PM +0200, Jean Louis wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s and Andy Wingo and other people who are intr= oducing > > > > > their pro-feminist political views into the apolitical GNU projec= t > > > > > are mixing the independent GNU project with their feminist stance= s. > > > > > > > > GNU projects should be feminist > > > > > > It is not clear whether current troubles are linked to feminism or > other > > > *ism or just interests of some corporations. But what is clear is tha= t > > > different people have naturally and constantly different opinions on > > > various *isms. And the point is that mixing *isms into the free > software > > > development, will cause community breakdown. We would be spending tim= e > > > with pointless quarrels (as you can see right now) instead of > developing > > > useful free software for everybody (freedom 0). > > > > It is dividing the community. > > > > Jean > > If "women should be welcome in tech" is a step too far for you, then you > are too whiny to be useful in tech. > > And technology is ALWAYS political. If you think otherwise, you are naive > to an almost childish level. > > Funny how politics in tech are not a problem to you people when it's > politics you already agree with. But now you have to make a tiny sacrific= e, > improve just a teensy bit as a human being, and suddenly you're scared. > > And if the divide is between "people who want free software to be > inclusive" and "people who don't want their leaders to be held responsibl= e" > then I welcome that divide. > > --00000000000093c52b0594ba38f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
P,
The problem is when that politics get= s extreme.
For example at the point to change the ru= les of a human language just for politics reason.
The guixSD Spanish manual for example says : '= ;la usuaria' to refer to every user=C2=A0

But in Spanish 'la usuaria' only refers to a = female user, and 'el usuario' refer to every user, a male or both t= o be more exact.

The rul= es to create a gender neutral language in the manual in some languages as t= he Spanish is not possible, because there is not way to achieve that in Spa= nish at least.

But also = the the new rule is creating a 'feminist languaje' due to 'la u= suaria' is only for woman's=C2=A0

=

The reason to do that is only= political, the argument is the woman's feels not get represented when = you says 'el usuario'.
But in the real world= , only a feminist person can say that.

The translation work should be translate a lenguaje to anoth= er, not create a new languaje' to accommodate your political ideas.

Don't you think that is= extreme?

Regards
<= /div>
E= l s=C3=A1b., 12 de octubre de 2019 13:37, P <pronaip@protonmail.com> escribi=C3=B3:
On Saturday, October 12, 2019 5:22 PM, Jean Louis= <bugs@gnu.support> wrote:

> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0Franti=C5=A1ek Ku=C4=8Dera konference@frantovo.cz [2019-10-12 19:13]:
>
> > Dne 12. 10. 19 v 15:38 pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) napsal(a):
> >
> > > On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 03:06:31PM +0200, Jean Louis wrote:<= br> > > >
> > > > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s and Andy Wingo and other people wh= o are introducing
> > > > their pro-feminist political views into the apolitical = GNU project
> > > > are mixing the independent GNU project with their femin= ist stances.
> > >
> > > GNU projects should be feminist
> >
> > It is not clear whether current troubles are linked to feminism o= r other
> > *ism or just interests of some corporations. But what is clear is= that
> > different people have naturally and constantly different opinions= on
> > various *isms. And the point is that mixing *isms into the free s= oftware
> > development, will cause community breakdown. We would be spending= time
> > with pointless quarrels (as you can see right now) instead of dev= eloping
> > useful free software for everybody (freedom 0).
>
> It is dividing the community.
>
> Jean

If "women should be welcome in tech" is a step too far for you, t= hen you are too whiny to be useful in tech.

And technology is ALWAYS political. If you think otherwise, you are naive t= o an almost childish level.

Funny how politics in tech are not a problem to you people when it's po= litics you already agree with. But now you have to make a tiny sacrifice, i= mprove just a teensy bit as a human being, and suddenly you're scared.<= br>
And if the divide is between "people who want free software to be incl= usive" and "people who don't want their leaders to be held re= sponsible" then I welcome that divide.

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