From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id YMuFAyHgrGKeNgEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 22:12:17 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id 8MZtAyHgrGJgXQEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 22:12:17 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9729E1243A for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 22:12:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:44768 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o2IKF-0004lU-Ny for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 16:12:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57840) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o2IK4-0004l7-1m for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 16:12:04 -0400 Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]:45878) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o2IK2-0004ZW-Il for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 16:12:03 -0400 Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id s10so5802665ljh.12 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:12:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ee4JBb7tB7rv4qfxAFm+xcGJHXaQBerWyEsade9Qz2Y=; b=UNc47oJavM0ppebeLDKdc8jOPYJdDRBa7JRsZOWEK15AdQaNMZ6c31O9yYxzbKlqg0 43OfQjyMXVSQxIYNHur428DsDvwliEjGJVXNpXFWyUDVU9bhNVHYlaeEraCQrNt5HryX BtPcv02ITNiHKXmm6lJNCEzxUhQPj+ViMpzq02Mzj0R3LX7ZNCRUkMa+AuReiQn9ETuC Q7jmEZtOGLL5+GvAK4H9QS4F58a0mthk6XXDGTc58kQxnpzKgBVoAH07Efhprfb9eHVX cvw8bNtjpwtcVWnR/gz0KfHbUgmhPpjVTeO0jRFRRXO+fFKt/GqvFTFMEWa7OeO/fKmC E/zA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=ee4JBb7tB7rv4qfxAFm+xcGJHXaQBerWyEsade9Qz2Y=; b=a3uUMU3kXCcOBBRxIJcd1+crdGHKpm/enwrZz27kFxaxBs/YkXk3048+qeEUCkyE/R 4vFhlqIv1L4+6DYcD4EJfn62PHFSP99xzMI8Vj4iIVannfeB5S/qQNjkJN6OwGHA9hPt IdiynGYEhsHYgDLrxSELNprxD1NCyamFX8CKMRXtrHleA7aQ0TruvTIp5ukx7NKo0krz bJEpUUacOHuW442ODEmi/ClQkuh2hcu/Vgtu9xW0Ju0bx6wjrJn6G3dbOeOfdNrs/kt2 vW5mVaOyNsOM/cM5XujkuPPAO+8ttOYKbrnJDVGHjT7TnEl0E3u43Pr4A3T0Ia1QGFAf avTg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora/oVlaXxoIsHmJeKptR/DG1ObYUPtDquZxJI1kswegVsGotMEN4 Ps37s2ZSW2UCDTwDCWb/PmlnLkiebjTs5ArxRc8kVQnZh9g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1t7bxkuPrMcGVrF4bbMOsDEUW4U/uYqyG2hxwyJE58zuUtproQv78KkI7hrDTAerHg2m4pBY/4cGVk8NgrxTWU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:237:b0:25a:5d30:856 with SMTP id z23-20020a05651c023700b0025a5d300856mr176849ljn.114.1655496720217; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:12:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <11010317.nUPlyArG6x@avalon> <87zgiby7yt.fsf@gmail.com> <7b05425306ead2c333e7671a7c32b4164e4b6a50.camel@telenet.be> In-Reply-To: From: Felix Lechner Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:11:23 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FSDG-compatibility of APSL-2.0 To: Guix Devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::22f; envelope-from=felix.lechner@gmail.com; helo=mail-lj1-x22f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1655496736; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=ee4JBb7tB7rv4qfxAFm+xcGJHXaQBerWyEsade9Qz2Y=; b=fthcvkqVPbxl0NW6G2E3pUDpMAZ9TuEWoWXokI3VIp03YLaSJTYGoCe3ejYwDJBO6Em+yR IeOhJDEDX+0Vy6Pc/0KIuG0f9VCFntVuj8hOnm+SMzzGbzkxwGj2he/w92Laa94sPWinqb LEF1DNNVRkU/dBH4PXYkIvEFv/4tIYyQqcASFL6wrOxFL/sOZSQPlkN/bcWoE+HxKxmhbN +zGkllA+lw3JnuKN38JZB5jNSERBqrur7QyEyYNgQbc7T3r91HpJxvOYVHA3CaRxFsTru9 GX/3T9hv9jIHb/mt3SNeh5w8n1ytqPavatTnoKBkZRPabvDWTijWZmtli0Z3pw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1655496736; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=j/1sSCxsfJjcpyJ7RsUha3TD1Ansk5vP3VJ690qID5ZfTOgYDLUqtSJEsqE3n1qcCPj/OL 2LBoFS09/HHQ6AoYWqXxN6VQv4GRANJr9TgR4EDPmu7IVmxa38WB5ZJKBOrFHs19I7Cw4o h24Jvltgimn14UdocFjfSbpEMbvZLeLkG/rLAY3J67LLNkUCWKlf07NfeTymN2cIZ1BWhl SUwX3sjD5re1/K07mkYLC/sjWXkNJ0OkK7TA4LypRQVVvMTfghg9kD+X0YcylwXJ+wtov4 6lNmIX/Q87CClbhzDOMTZUNfrlaHJ9EhO5Ld1mnEFIHnhlIpbZ6DOWg0unanCQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=UNc47oJa; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.99 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=UNc47oJa; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9729E1243A X-Spam-Score: -3.99 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: HZp1CgerNINV Hi, On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 10:07 AM Maxime Devos wrote: > > If $local_country makes all software free, such a > clause would likely be illegal in $local_country and thus unenforcible. A country would likely engage in such a wholesale disenfranchisement as a last step, and not the first, after refusing to enforce Apple's judgments obtained in the US. > If you are already in California, [...], but if you don't and simply > Apple needs to appeal to international > law enforcement or your country in particular, whichever is easier. I generally think of license violations as civil matters. With some small exceptions, law enforcement focuses on criminal cases. > they have to cross either ocean, things become more difficult. Apple would probably try to obtain a default judgment, which is often issued after a counterparty was served (not always easy abroad) but did not respond in court. If and how that judgment affects someone's situation in another country depends on many factors, including international treaties and the local political environment. > ... yes, but I wouldn't know whether it will be to difficult or not for > Apple and whether $local_country would agree/disagree, so I'm inclined > to assume the worst for safety, unless informed by a reliable expert. The safest route for free software activists is always to comply with the stated license terms. Folks in the free software community, at least those of us preferring licenses with strong copylefts, expect the same. As a resident of Northern California, I personally like the local legal environment. You would have to talk to a lawyer to see if the Ninth Circuit (copyright claims are Federal) would honor the clause about ignoring the UN Convention after considering the relative strength of the parties, as a matter of sound public policy. Perhaps the weighing of those factors played a role in why Apple's attempt to stipulate a venue did not render the license unfree. Kind regards, Felix Lechner P.S. To my knowledge, I do not use or own any Apple products.