From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id wHR8A/O5n18NXQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 07:49:07 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id SIXoOvK5n1+TQQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 07:49:06 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFA419400D3 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2020 07:49:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:59298 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kZUaP-0000GG-Ox for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 02:49:05 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48436) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kZUaH-0000G7-47 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 02:48:57 -0500 Received: from mail-oo1-xc2a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2a]:36892) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kZUaF-0003pL-Ff for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2020 02:48:56 -0500 Received: by mail-oo1-xc2a.google.com with SMTP id f25so3152829oou.4 for ; Sun, 01 Nov 2020 23:48:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=zF4zOVj7hAhWmmi/Y7aiWE2ZOg/JWPLa8euPH3jJxko=; b=qC1mPFGERI15D2xZAHANs5SMBn0+VNf0cdyUjfUpBiY0ow97aM6pNI6Li8ow+Y9PsR 93dLZkV4ZrbT40RiZimRQ/3Gl37KAgh7WQjknLeNdxzVkptp2gwc2cvdk4TP5HtlH0iH xGQEMeSRceXg6+rRAI/6wUuF2VXlX/sm4/aElRzj+FHvyfOFVZSyxI5dYdCYAr2qtlZf i4z+wOwcYty7owf8wFRWoKPiR5Us3rMrag5uXZvfTVEpXlN1n7/v1BW6mx8G05UqlHlI baPMOn/2CzXhDFPBjJHaGMYgbb6ksAtMadNpoGLQZ4/FtEJuwcMcM7B5LSMrZJSfXHhF XWgQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zF4zOVj7hAhWmmi/Y7aiWE2ZOg/JWPLa8euPH3jJxko=; b=EPXj5WypnqSZkpAEPOQn5+bVSNTgMLVdcCgh013OOlJYbdVPcIALX5NFFCVU0OQjxw 98wqPf69ophtJNPyDP8bHkxCc4AvjHrbdFDC/27wTJuhkh+WfLkMb30IK9m+Awuyz4fW 2iWf9vbEzWx/dFjF63UN2DT0vrJDZfnOSp9ePppG8cIPbH0xeE2xFemIggcA45vJ1Opm Z+s+h0kSPTLITj/NF5xw2K7z5g4TMi177ktUE7CDW/t0g3wcx9QcEnBAzQTKw0sSsmfe oPONuXjm4yz5aVdiR7BMzfsZqdVW8ohhdGddL5VknKQEhU7hv/Ql6EN4jwf22k8jjji5 YxCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533VRrhVSkphpcRIJVtS41qho4JY26u21SGAZlyPh31Bm1Ea6NDj VRC/aUe+u/nvUuzlk+xBQxto19XDsUlzZBfVpDM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxWeU/fh+sDnNw9UL+itInxAtWnsTDQdGWXbzm9eBjExHP6sPb1oPwkP3/X8D+0MUbgMMjUu+ytbNDpbR8/M9k= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:d0a4:: with SMTP id t4mr11066721oor.21.1604303333884; Sun, 01 Nov 2020 23:48:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87v9eolvwy.fsf@systemreboot.net> In-Reply-To: From: Aniket Patil Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 13:18:43 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Etymology of derivation To: Taylan Kammer Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000054066605b31afa8d" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2a; envelope-from=aniket112.patil@gmail.com; helo=mail-oo1-xc2a.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (headers rsa verify failed) header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=qC1mPFGE; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.09 X-TUID: y5nGbQvQVQ5B --00000000000054066605b31afa8d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Arun, I have been student of Sanskrit, but I am not master of Sanskrit. I would like to say that we can derive words in Indian languages easily. If we don=E2=80=99t have such words then Indian languages have something called d= hatu (root). =E0=A4=B5=E0=A5=8D=E0=A4=AF=E0=A5=81=E0=A4=A4=E0=A5=8D=E0=A4=AA=E0= =A4=A8=E0=A5=8D=E0=A4=A8 =E2=80=9CVyutpanna=E2=80=9D is a marathi word for = derivation. Try to find similar or make on your own. I don=E2=80=99t have familiarity with Tam= il but I would suggest you to do so. Regards, Aniket On Mon, 2 Nov 2020 at 10:38 AM, Taylan Kammer wrote: > On 01.11.2020 20:27, Arun Isaac wrote: > > > > Hi Guix, > > > > I am translating Guix to the Tamil language. Tamil doesn't yet have a > > very standardized technical vocabulary, and I mostly coin terms on my > > own. Most often, I construct calques of existing English words, and it > > sounds alright. But, I'm having trouble with the word "derivation" (as > > in Guix's low-level build actions). I haven't seen the word "derivation= " > > used anywhere outside of Guix. Why is a "low-level build action" called > > a "derivation"? If someone could clarify the etymology, it might really > > help with good translation. > > > > Thanks! > > > > In Turkish, taking the easy way, we sometimes just bastardize an English > word, for example in this case we might say "derivasyon." (Other such > examples: "depresyon" for depression, "enflasyon" for inflation, etc.) > Can such a thing be done in Tamil? > > > Alternatively, it might be useful to check what terminology is used in > Tamil for mathematical derivation / derivatives, as in calculus. > > > By the way, using Google Translate on various English, German and > Turkish words which all stand for "derivation" (namely "derivation", > "derivative", "Ableitung", "t=C3=BCrev" and "t=C3=BCretme") have all resu= lted in: > > =E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=B4=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=A4=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=A4=E0=AF=8B=E0=AE=A9= =E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B1=E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=8D > > Although translating it back leads to words like "descendants" and > "grandchildren." > > > - Taylan > > --00000000000054066605b31afa8d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Arun,=C2=A0
I have been student= of Sanskrit, but I am not master of Sanskrit. I would like to say that we = can derive words in Indian languages easily. If we don=E2=80=99t have such = words then Indian languages have something called dhatu (root). =E0=A4=B5= =E0=A5=8D=E0=A4=AF=E0=A5=81=E0=A4=A4=E0=A5=8D=E0=A4=AA=E0=A4=A8=E0=A5=8D=E0= =A4=A8 =E2=80=9CVyutpanna=E2=80=9D is a marathi word for derivation. Try to= find similar or make on your own. I don=E2=80=99t have familiarity with Ta= mil but I would suggest you to do so.=C2=A0

Regards,
Aniket

On Mon, 2 Nov 2020= at 10:38 AM, Taylan Kammer <= taylan.kammer@gmail.com> wrote:
On 01.11.2= 020 20:27, Arun Isaac wrote:
>
> Hi Guix,
>
> I am translating Guix to the Tamil language. Tamil doesn't yet hav= e a
> very standardized technical vocabulary, and I mostly coin terms on my<= br> > own. Most often, I construct calques of existing English words, and it=
> sounds alright. But, I'm having trouble with the word "deriva= tion" (as
> in Guix's low-level build actions). I haven't seen the word &q= uot;derivation"
> used anywhere outside of Guix. Why is a "low-level build action&q= uot; called
> a "derivation"? If someone could clarify the etymology, it m= ight really
> help with good translation.
>
> Thanks!
>

In Turkish, taking the easy way, we sometimes just bastardize an English word, for example in this case we might say "derivasyon."=C2=A0 (= Other such
examples: "depresyon" for depression, "enflasyon" for i= nflation, etc.)
Can such a thing be done in Tamil?


Alternatively, it might be useful to check what terminology is used in
Tamil for mathematical derivation / derivatives, as in calculus.


By the way, using Google Translate on various English, German and
Turkish words which all stand for "derivation" (namely "deri= vation",
"derivative", "Ableitung", "t=C3=BCrev" and &= quot;t=C3=BCretme") have all resulted in:

=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=B4=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=A4=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=A4=E0=AF=8B=E0=AE=A9=E0= =AF=8D=E0=AE=B1=E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=8D

Although translating it back leads to words like "descendants" an= d
"grandchildren."


- Taylan

--00000000000054066605b31afa8d--