From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id eCELFVk3s14SXwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 06 May 2020 22:16:57 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id MNkwEWU3s173bwAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 06 May 2020 22:17:09 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [IPv6:2001:470:142::17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18A9C940B6B for ; Wed, 6 May 2020 22:17:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:53738 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWSLj-0006rl-N6 for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 18:17:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60524) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWSLb-0006rG-Qv for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 18:16:59 -0400 Received: from mail-io1-xd44.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d44]:37663) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWSLa-0003gW-OB; Wed, 06 May 2020 18:16:59 -0400 Received: by mail-io1-xd44.google.com with SMTP id u11so4030356iow.4; Wed, 06 May 2020 15:16:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rHK1oeYggbKR1zxMpkTsGeq23pqoHB7XGnF2kD2xJXY=; b=h0I4nJFV+22gXO21Ckr+f2ZI/YiP+l+SJInBNMgmBIofzlc1fmei/RAa2JSSxnb7fX Xf9YrQVv3HE54hcSm937N73XJIFCsZZk9OXMza5t821447G1SzCnPso8IYgLGoCXkxEZ rYDwewjbCexFIs6kWHl5rK/rYZNKD0L2ooHEoY9+Qq71WSNc2lsn8fkJyAED5xAQ43HN jbkNYypreWpcus2JBv8W9+HhZXtqYLa8nYzFKUsZys8x9A+cR0/e89hxwl4MnS/OIHTy cDVH3LMxHxJm8GQePYxA3K9Ts55crvIV2jmodvtqiBaRrxb9k2A4YmBbRas9ZNJqVFY/ 8zRQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rHK1oeYggbKR1zxMpkTsGeq23pqoHB7XGnF2kD2xJXY=; b=mjsh94jmST9oAy2uzo4nj71sJlM2NeStStQZ0STbBjzo6wsI6QkeCOQQo2k4dg70+R 2hTzPnLbm1gPgyMr0h+NI4d/NCg2n3UcwFDhdga2wxH58H7oInVjG5CXhAoSwY3zYcJG BRb+wP79xJ5nK8/+mKbKk6yuRXGt/QIPfgtiQ6mUkFhTEz1hfeuvteX/xYdBLHNLZTtD o4mdsgvc8EqIoCbb4fZNNDI6wqVgygwcpTzJUFZNkfeMMKAGRU9R+S6UoBHgyPpdyv8U qxt3Y0CoV3Sdng70hqVSJ6zL9tNas6zp9jpkjNfl2TDvVYfimFa81b0QyVEDReeC30YM odYg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaTZTM9pVp6RKXrpYfR/oC6gCvX44WVF0mV92i2sxSr79Nq/2yM 2DRtL/p4ePdBhfekEdQLsCAOShYRlq9oQn1bafc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJ4asc1AYrJXtyfrZSn8ulUZY7ycn47TD3Yqlt2npLp8l6siwQ5IGl7jfQVQulk5YKdAEaBOgo+xjGXLOARqrw= X-Received: by 2002:a02:b88e:: with SMTP id p14mr10341996jam.36.1588803417146; Wed, 06 May 2020 15:16:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87blo1ydsf.fsf@cbaines.net> <20200408220745.GA18252@jasmine.lan> <87sggdf7qm.fsf@gnu.org> <20200506182827.GB27121@jasmine.lan> In-Reply-To: <20200506182827.GB27121@jasmine.lan> From: Vincent Legoll Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 00:16:45 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: MIPS support To: Leo Famulari Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::d44; envelope-from=vincent.legoll@gmail.com; helo=mail-io1-xd44.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: 0.09 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=h0I4nJFV; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 2001:470:142::17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [0.09 / 13.00]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.49716516587254]; DWL_DNSWL_FAIL(0.00)[2001:470:142::17:server fail]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:470:142::/48:c]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.11), country: US(-0.00), ip: 2001:470:142::17(-0.50)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:-]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MX_GOOD(-0.50)[cached: eggs.gnu.org]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_FAIL(0.00)[2001:470:142::17:server fail]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:2001:470:142::/48, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[vincentlegoll@gmail.com,guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; URIBL_BLOCKED(0.00)[gnu.org:url,gnubee.org:url,mediatek.com:url]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[gmail.com : SPF not aligned (relaxed),none] X-TUID: psIQjTYFp8zV Hello everybody, I'll do a single email answer, hope that is not off limits... The gnubee is dual-core x 2 threads, 880 MHz 32 bit mips, 512 MB RAM, 2x1Gb= ps ethernet, 6 SATA ports, SPI flash & microSD, USB 2 & 3, u-boot bootloader. http://gnubee.org https://www.mediatek.com/products/homeNetworking/mt7621n-a To Jack Hill > There seems to be a a fair amount of the router-class hardware available > that works with Free Software, but not much, if any, of the latter, more > powerful hardware. Unfortunately, I think having the more powerful > hardware available would make it much easier to work on the port. Yes, there's only a handful of desktop-class hw available, and it's hard to find, probably expensive too. On the other hand there are a lot of router-class hw, and the gnubee which = lies in between . Debian has a lot of mips hw available, see: https://db.debian.org/machines.cgi maybe we can ask for an account there if needed. > I feel similarly. It's always sad to see things go (I used to have a > collection of SPARC hardware, but let it go when I moved a few years ago)= , > but no need to keep it just for me. I never got my hands on sparc (to own one, we used to have sparcs at school= , and even alphas then, I'm getting old...) > Vincent, it sounds like there are at least two of us. Maybe we can work > together. Yes, certainly, I really hope to be able to get something done on that fron= t. To Christopher Baines > At least the main blocker for me is the lack of substitutes for the > things that fail to build with QEMU. So maybe one or a few machines > which were able to build those specific things would be sufficient to > provide some substitutes. I still not have tried mips (arm*, powerpc* and even there I still do not h= ave gone very far, but only tried cross-compilation which has it own set of problems). Can you elaborate a bit, compilation through qemu should be slow but mostly work, at least I hope. We should have a look at debian's arches MLs, there are a lot of efforts made to fix and upstream things, being done there. > I did have a look at seeing if I could purchase hardware, but I didn't > really know what to look at. Maybe we could try putting out an appeal > for MIPS hardware, maybe someone has some they don't use and would > donate? I jumped on the gnubee, as even if it only is 32bit, it was nicer hw than t= he available routers. I think the crowdsupply campaign founder still had some available last I heard. There are 2 versions one for 2"1/2 drives and one f= or 3"1/2 that was in a following campaign (I didn't grab one of those). It is = not dirt-cheap, though. To Leo Famulari > It's not really a maintenance burden currently since we don't actually > build or maintain the Guix on MIPS at all. OK, that's (kind of) nice to hear, that it is not a great burden for guix maintainer > I think this discussion is evidence that people find the situation a bit > confusing. When I am looking into a project, I find it demotivating to > read documentation about features that may or may not work =E2=80=94 it's= best > when the documentation accurately reflects what the software can do. Yes, exactly, that's why I asked if there was any incentive to try to docum= ent the state and actual efforts being done on the porting front. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2020-04/msg00175.html > So, whether or not to officially retire the Guix MIPS port would not be > related to supporting Guix on the GnuBee, which would be cool! Yes, maybe apart from a few entries in case/switch statements, this would n= ot cost us a lot of SLOCs, then people can build themselves and/or share the results with guix publish, and make it into a collective effort... OpenBSD is also doing a lot of work supporting some select old HW, their po= rts building time is in weeks for some of them. So it should be doable. > Declarative NAS configuration would be nice :) Yes, the power of guix to the rescue of poor old hw ! > It would be helpful to get some clarification of the relationship > between these architectures before deciding what to do. If none of us has access to any mips64 (which is what I think guix support was targeting), the point is kind of moot. And there's also the problem of guix/scheme being hard on resources (This i= s something I'm not really sure, but the attempts I did on arm32 were not rea= lly promising on that front, which is why I postponed further investigations th= ere. Hoping to get accustomed with guix porting for ppc64 which don't have those problems in the mean time) That was a long one... Thanks everyone for guix it's a refreshing thing ! -- Vincent Legoll