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bh=EwDp0MEl4aSluut/QW+IfPGdqt9C9KzVUxKawX77I8w=; b=nS1OS4UR33Wyc4NJn/HYrPBbIT4pMLNjxZqWTjllq8vEC0fQr7jVz7dKYJ14tik8AI yzR6pvphit6zpfGQSX3LreeirRymCCzniSwrrMwP4JgrvZNEPkC36qFh/QQgTHM8cjR6 pw4ve5veGwydb/82UvqOGIVZv/W22tLjZwiyOiPhkudRFBIUzvOtfzfXCUgZEJtoBxTV wzBsmCqnSmKmD5BOEwL6Y5IeCOVjcq1DMgXfaOlLzeLJ4HZfWMACYXo+xmOkOcvvCHxw IyuYAzEV+/dGjJbb5UOHOKqLA98xNY1uwlwk2voOObYA2gh+2K4mhfcU3O2WBCCMj5Rb kTZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyY5xmJCXF3eJs17raxsGg3EpeJDBa+T6/7wG+Q6DTJfBQNUPxi fJAH0c/35BTX5KdOwv1lbx38O2+mTUx1CbwKV1w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHWMq6mOmOBHw+OwNlbJRoFQGn0ne/irK7PJ8OW4aVVD61tB1nn5liF/weGKmAyM5jxmvOZwLNcLVzFHqlnC80= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:ff47:0:b0:655:99f2:6bd9 with SMTP id y7-20020a0cff47000000b0065599f26bd9mr5677484qvt.7.1694713763901; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 10:49:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87msyhgccg.fsf@disroot.org> <547c097a-d805-9a55-11d9-b0434327f89d@gmail.com> <871qfpjhiz.fsf@gmail.com> <87a5udaq7q.fsf@envs.net> <87il8z9yw8.fsf@xelera.eu> <8c30655ca9905946fc718940700f2475@libre.brussels> <871qf2tg6u.fsf@fannys.me> In-Reply-To: <871qf2tg6u.fsf@fannys.me> From: Sarthak Shah Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 23:19:12 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? To: Fannys Cc: Ekaitz Zarraga , indieterminacy , Imran Iqbal , Giovanni Biscuolo , =?UTF-8?B?5a6L5paH5q2m?= , Maxim Cournoyer , Katherine Cox-Buday , "(" , Guix Devel Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e4b6070605554b21" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2c; envelope-from=shahsarthakw@gmail.com; helo=mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Scanner: mx1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.11 X-Spam-Score: -0.11 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6D16D42FF4 X-TUID: WacE08X7KSur --000000000000e4b6070605554b21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I think that quite a few Guix users end up not committing to Guix because of how daunting and strange the process seems. In particular, having an alternate, easy-to-use interface for updating package definitions specifically could be very useful. The greatest strength of Guix is that it can be very easily integrated into Guile programs. I believe that it should not be very hard to create a user interface (web, ncurses or GUI) that searches for a package's location (the package record has a field that accommodates this) and then displays it, which the user can then edit. We can then have the program build the package based on this new definition, and if the user is satisfied with it it can format a patch based on the edit and all the contributor will have to do is e-mail it. This could greatly reduce the barrier to entry for contributing newer package versions, but it could also open up the door to spam/misuse if we host it on the web. Regards, Sarthak. On Wed, 13 Sep, 2023, 17:54 Fannys, wrote: > > Ekaitz Zarraga writes: > > >> > This is what I mean when I say many times emacs is kind of mandatory, > >> > and > >> > this thread is kind of a demonstration of what I meant because the > main > >> > discussion evolved to: you can use this or that in emacs to ease the > >> > dev > >> > experience. > >> > >> > >> One of the benefits of my being able to attend Guix Days was seeing > >> peoples' workflows and stacks in person. > >> > >> As such, one of my conclusions having (already) committed to Guix was > >> that I needed to master Emacs prior to Guile > >> (Im highly flow orientated). > > > > But again, even if this is a great option for you, it might be a really > bad > > option for some other people. Everybody does not have the time to spend > > learning emacs, or other specific tool. It's ok if the workflow suggests > that > > but it's not great if we have no other alternative. > > > > It's not accessible and imposes a barrier in some people. > > Yeah agreed. And we should be consious of that. > Ironically by mandating Emacs and Email we force people to use specific > tools while at the same time even though the same people will complain(!) > against vendor lock-in > like github. > > --000000000000e4b6070605554b21 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think that quite a few Guix users end= up not committing to Guix because of how daunting and strange the process = seems.
In particular, having an alternate, easy-to-u= se interface for updating package definitions specifically could be very us= eful.

The greatest stren= gth of Guix is that it can be very easily integrated into Guile programs.I believe that it should not be very hard to create a user interface (w= eb, ncurses or GUI) that searches for a package's location (the package= record has a field that accommodates this) and then displays it, which the= user can then edit. We can then have the program build the package based o= n this new definition, and if the user is satisfied with it it can format a= patch based on the edit and all the contributor will have to do is e-mail = it.

This could greatly reduce the ba= rrier to entry for contributing newer package versions, but it could also o= pen up the door to spam/misuse if we host it on the web.

Regards,
Sarthak.

On Wed, 13 Sep, 2023, 17:54 Fannys, <email@fannys.me> wrote:

Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@elenq.tech> writes:

>> > This is what I mean when I say many times emacs is kind of ma= ndatory,
>> > and
>> > this thread is kind of a demonstration of what I meant becaus= e the main
>> > discussion evolved to: you can use this or that in emacs to e= ase the
>> > dev
>> > experience.
>>
>>
>> One of the benefits of my being able to attend Guix Days was seein= g
>> peoples' workflows and stacks in person.
>>
>> As such, one of my conclusions having (already) committed to Guix = was
>> that I needed to master Emacs prior to Guile
>> (Im highly flow orientated).
>
> But again, even if this is a great option for you, it might be a reall= y bad
> option for some other people. Everybody does not have the time to spen= d
> learning emacs, or other specific tool. It's ok if the workflow su= ggests that
> but it's not great if we have no other alternative.
>
> It's not accessible and imposes a barrier in some people.

Yeah agreed. And we should be consious of that.
Ironically by mandating Emacs and Email we force people to use specific
tools while at the same time even though the same people will complain(!) a= gainst vendor lock-in
like github.

--000000000000e4b6070605554b21--