From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Daniel Jiang Subject: Re: 05/15: gnu: wesnoth: Rename package to the-battle-for-wesnoth. Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 13:44:07 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20190326131842.7363.84034@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20190326131844.C73EC209E3@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <87imw4fuee.fsf@gnu.org> <87r2aso7zh.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <874l7ojhdk.fsf@nckx> <87y350fa2e.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003db31d058517d357" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35851) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h9DhU-0002Js-Tm for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 14:55:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h9DXB-0002L6-0f for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 14:44:22 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-x335.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::335]:45373) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h9DXA-0002KX-Ny for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 14:44:20 -0400 Received: by mail-ot1-x335.google.com with SMTP id e5so15856107otk.12 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 11:44:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87y350fa2e.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Pierre Neidhardt , Tobias Geerinckx-Rice , swedebugia , guix-devel@gnu.org --0000000000003db31d058517d357 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Might be related to the subject (?) but would adding something like keywords/tags to package definitions help? On Emacs, a package definition like this can pop up: ack is an available package. > > Status: Available from gnu -- Install > Archive: gnu > Version: 1.8 > Summary: interface to ack-like tools > Homepage: https://github.com/leoliu/ack-el > Keywords: tools processes convenience > Then searching packages via keywords can be done: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Package-Keywords.= html On Slackbuilds likewise (keywords somewhere below): https://slackbuilds.org/repository/14.2/system/guix/ This could be metadata to help find related stuff so there can be a games tag for the wesnoth package. Also dunno how related, but in Common Lisp nicknames can be defined for packages. I wrote some game programming libraries bindings before that uses a longer name for the definition but a two letter nickname to make it easier to use in practice. Sincerely, Daniel Jiang On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 1:26 PM Pierre Neidhardt wrote: > Tobias Geerinckx-Rice writes: > > > TL;DR: we're missing a field like =E2=80=98DISPLAY-NAME=E2=80=99, and a= ll this is > > just hacking around the bush. > > This could be a very nice idea! > > > Using this logic, I counter that these very long names unfairly > > privilege 1337 hackers who can touch-type, and hurt the average > > Jo' poking at their chiclet keyboard with a chopstick ;-) > > > > Both arguments make about as much sense IMO (and caricature > > users). I think a name like =E2=80=98the-battle-for-wesnoth=E2=80=99 h= elps > > *neither* user. > > Users who cannot touch-type will typically perform simple queries, such a= s: > > - battle wesnoth > - wesnoth battle > - battle > - wesnoth > > (Using Emacs-Guix.el, Helm, or the next GTK interface.) > > With "wesnoth" as a name, 3 out 4 queries won't hit a result. > > I don't think that "typing" is the issue here. At least, I wouldn't > sacrifice the _ability to search_ just to type short names. > > Also an option is to alias package names. > > > > XLong names take longer to type on the command line, and noisy to > > read in code. > > Noisy? Why? Short code filled with acronyms tends to be harder to read > then long explicit names. > > Package names are mostly used as inputs. In those longs package lists, > it's really nice to have explicit names and leave little room for > ambiguity. > > > Some hinder tab-completion. > > Why? > > > In a GUI, they still look ugly: why no spaces? Why lowercase? > > Why bother? We don't have to choose between POLA from other > > command-line package managers and providing pretty metadata for > > higher-level UIs. > > We can do both. > > Absolutely. > > -- > Pierre Neidhardt > https://ambrevar.xyz/ > --0000000000003db31d058517d357 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

Might be related to t= he subject (?) but would adding something like keywords/tags to package definitions=20 help? On Emacs, a package definition like this can pop up:
ack is an av= ailable package.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Status: Available from gnu= -- Install
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Archive: gnu
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Versio= n: 1.8
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Summary: interface to ack-like tools
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 Homepage: https://githu= b.com/leoliu/ack-el
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Keywords: tools processes convenien= ce


On Slackbuilds= likewise (keywords somewhere below): https://slackbuilds.org/repository/14.2/system/= guix/

This could be metadata to help find rela= ted stuff so there can be a games tag for the wesnoth package. Also dunno h= ow related, but in Common Lisp nicknames can be defined for packages. I wro= te some game programming libraries bindings before that uses a longer name = for the definition but a two letter nickname to make it easier to use in pr= actice.

Sincerely,
Daniel Jiang
<= /div>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 1:26 PM Pierre Neidhardt <mail@ambrevar.xyz> wrote:
Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr> writes:

> TL;DR: we're missing a field like =E2=80=98DISPLAY-NAME=E2=80=99, = and all this is
> just hacking around the bush.

This could be a very nice idea!

> Using this logic, I counter that these very long names unfairly
> privilege 1337 hackers who can touch-type, and hurt the average
> Jo' poking at their chiclet keyboard with a chopstick ;-)
>
> Both arguments make about as much sense IMO (and caricature
> users).=C2=A0 I think a name like =E2=80=98the-battle-for-wesnoth=E2= =80=99 helps
> *neither* user.

Users who cannot touch-type will typically perform simple queries, such as:=

- battle wesnoth
- wesnoth battle
- battle
- wesnoth

(Using Emacs-Guix.el, Helm, or the next GTK interface.)

With "wesnoth" as a name, 3 out 4 queries won't hit a result.=

I don't think that "typing" is the issue here.=C2=A0 At least= , I wouldn't
sacrifice the _ability to search_ just to type short names.

Also an option is to alias package names.


> XLong names take longer to type on the command line, and noisy to
> read in code.

Noisy?=C2=A0 Why?=C2=A0 Short code filled with acronyms tends to be harder = to read
then long explicit names.

Package names are mostly used as inputs.=C2=A0 In those longs package lists= ,
it's really nice to have explicit names and leave little room for ambig= uity.

> Some hinder tab-completion.=C2=A0

Why?

> In a GUI, they still look ugly: why no spaces?=C2=A0 Why lowercase? > Why bother?=C2=A0 We don't have to choose between POLA from other =
> command-line package managers and providing pretty metadata for
> higher-level UIs.
> We can do both.

Absolutely.

--
Pierre Neidhardt
http= s://ambrevar.xyz/
--0000000000003db31d058517d357--