From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Dan Partelly Subject: Re: Improving the README and new user experience Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:39:25 +0300 Message-ID: References: <2BB0BF83-FB79-4D6D-AE22-9E8D6B095C75@riseup.net> <7320F0B8-73A2-4E35-ADDE-D5E0E1E7E69A@rdsor.ro> <87lgb9exex.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\)) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9B18E766-293D-4A17-92F0-4CA0439DC9B7" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49458) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fVZhk-0004Zd-B1 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 05:47:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fVZhf-0006ql-BE for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 05:47:08 -0400 Received: from imap.rdsor.ro ([193.231.238.8]:59476 helo=mail.rdsor.ro) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fVZhe-0006qG-Uv for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 05:47:03 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87lgb9exex.fsf@gmail.com> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Pierre Neidhardt Cc: Guix-devel --Apple-Mail=_9B18E766-293D-4A17-92F0-4CA0439DC9B7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It is my oppinion that first you should very clearly define what you = want from GuixSD=20 a) is GuixSD to be a system which sees wide adoption , or is a system by = developers for developers. b) What kind of users ? Industrial use or amateurs at home ? c) Server space, desktop space or both ? d) if server space, actively think at security and to the stability of = the OS. Identify potential security risks of running the custom kernel = you have. Document it. Be open about it . Think at the implications of = running a conservative garbage collector in several system demons. = Uptime should be measured in year(s). See if it is a problem or = not.Measure it . Document it. e) GuixSD is decent OS and follows NIX on the path of innovation . It = would be a pitty to remain a niche used by a very small group of ppl . = Do not focus just on the fact that the system is transactional, atomic = and so on. Make it rock stable. > I'm not quite sure yet how to improve the experience to new users. 1. Once you know this there is a lot you can do. Scheme is a good = configuration language, but if you lack info on all the basics = administration tasks and the semantics of the DSL the user is screwed. = Documenting it is a must, for all common adminsitrative tasks 2. Make sure you use sound development practices, do not inflict the = users upon the bleeding edge of your repository. I cannot stress enough = how important this is, regardless of what you shoose to be the market of = your product. 3. Treat it as a product, not as a hacking playground. I know it is not = funny, but my guess is that it will help with adoption 4. Once you reach 1.0 , stop. Reflect on the bugs you have, and what = documentation you lack. Make bug solving a priority for several point = releases over new features. Or do both if you have sufficient manpower. e) AIX Smitty is a great rpogram for configuring the system. It = generates scripts, which the admin can execute and bring the OS in the = desired state. You can generate Scheme from a similar system = configuration tool, indicate the user it should review it, then execute system recofniguration with guix command.=20 > On Jun 20, 2018, at 10:20, Pierre Neidhardt > wrote: >=20 > I'm not quite sure yet how to improve the experience to new users. = I'd > need to install it several times, with other people and for different > scenarios before I can be a better judge. --Apple-Mail=_9B18E766-293D-4A17-92F0-4CA0439DC9B7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
It is my oppinion that = first you should very clearly define what you want from GuixSD 

a) is GuixSD to be a = system which sees wide adoption , or is a system by developers for = developers.
b) What kind of users ? Industrial use = or amateurs at home ?
c) Server space, desktop = space or both ?
d) if server space, actively think = at security  and to the stability of the OS. Identify potential = security risks of  running the custom kernel you have. Document it. = Be open about it . Think at the implications of running a conservative = garbage collector in several system demons. Uptime should be measured in = year(s). See if it is a problem or not.Measure it .  Document = it.
e) GuixSD is decent OS  and  follows = NIX on the path of innovation . It would be a pitty to remain a niche = used by a very small group of ppl . Do not focus just on the fact that = the system is transactional, atomic and so on. Make it rock = stable.


I'm = not quite sure yet how to improve the experience to new = users.

1. Once = you know this there is a lot you can do. Scheme is a good configuration = language, but if you lack info on all the basics administration tasks = and the semantics of the DSL the user is screwed. Documenting it is a = must, for all common adminsitrative tasks
2. Make = sure you use sound development practices, do not inflict the users upon = the bleeding edge of your repository. I cannot stress enough how = important this is, regardless of what you shoose to be the market of = your product.
3. Treat it as a product, not as a = hacking playground. I know it is not funny, but my guess is that it will = help with adoption
4. Once you reach 1.0 , stop. = Reflect on the bugs you have, and what documentation you lack. Make bug = solving a priority for several point releases over new features. Or do = both if you have sufficient manpower.
e) AIX Smitty is a great rpogram for configuring the system. = It generates scripts, which the admin can execute and bring the OS in = the desired state. You can generate Scheme from a similar system = configuration tool, indicate the user it should review it, = then
execute system recofniguration with guix = command. 

On Jun 20, 2018, at 10:20, = Pierre Neidhardt <ambrevar@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not quite sure yet how to = improve the experience to new users.  I'd
need to install it several = times, with other people and for different
scenarios before I can be a better judge.


= --Apple-Mail=_9B18E766-293D-4A17-92F0-4CA0439DC9B7--