From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Miguel Subject: Re: Gender neutral documentation Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:34:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41668) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hsbdx-0004cW-BA for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 19:34:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hsbdt-0004nV-Sc for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 19:34:57 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x335.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::335]:33217) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hsbdt-0004hG-1W for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 19:34:53 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x335.google.com with SMTP id h19so36710wme.0 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 16:34:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: guix-devel@gnu.org, Wilson Bustos El July 30, 2019 10:10:21 PM UTC, Wilson Bustos escr= ibi=C3=B3: >Hello everyone! >I would like to help to make guix packages, >I'm also reading documentation and watching videos about this=2E > >But I have some questions=2E >1- Do you have some document which explain what means 'gender neutral' >documentation=2E >and how that works in different languages such as Spanish? > The use of the feminine gender as neutral in the Spanish translation is in= tended as explained here: https://guix=2Egnu=2Eorg/manual/es/html_node/Envi= o-de-parches=2Ehtml#DOCF40 >2- Reading the the Spanish version of the GNU manual in several pages >like >this one: >https://guix=2Egnu=2Eorg/manual/es/html_node/Caracteristicas=2Ehtml#Carac= ter_00edsticas > >Has female sentence instead a 'normal' - 'neutral' sentence=2E >LIKE: `Opera en los perfiles de usuaria, y puede ser usada *con >privilegios >de usuaria normal*=2E` > >which say 'usuaria' to refer to the user, but that words is only used >to >refer to a woman=2E >but 'usuario' can be used to refer to a man or woman=2E As written in the footnote, It's perfectly reasonable to say in Spanish "l= a persona" and "las personas" (person/people in English), whose grammatical= gender is feminine, to refer anyone without making any reference to their = preferred gender, so it should be any problem to use that grammatical gende= r instead of the usual "neutral" one=2E From Latin's neutral case we have w= ords like "el/la estudiante", "el/la marchante [de arte]", but the selectio= n of the masculine as the default/neutral form is arguably biased towards o= ne end=2E=20 >Using this all the time it becomes confusing to read for me, due to >this I >change to the english manual=2E I understand that it can be tiresome, specially if you've been socialized = as a male as I've been=2E On the other hand, more than a half of the Spanis= h speakers don't have to make any effort in order to understand it=2E I sup= pose that the same effort probably have been the done (usually beforehand) = by people socialized as females when they read a document claiming (implici= tly, as any language construct) that "usuario" applies to them too, but I o= nly have anecdotical evidence=2E=2E=2E and the fact that women are really u= nderrepresented (at least) in the development and free software community, = so I try to take a feminist stance as my grain of sand to move this actual = mountain=2E >I completely respect your job I want to be part of the community and >help, >I know this is a really delicate topic and I don't want to make a flame >war >or something like that=2E My approach is far from perfect: there are people who don't identify neith= er as male nor female, so the dissonance is still there, but I'm open to an= y new idea but using male gender as neutral one for the reasons I exposed t= here and here=2E Personally, I think it needs to be openly talked, it shouldn't be a flame = war each time somebody mentions it=2E The conflict is already there, not sp= eaking "about the elephant" doesn't make it disappear and only delays the p= ossible solutions=2E Best regards, Miguel Hello, Wilson! Thank you for your interest in this awesome community=2E From my side, I'v= e been taking more than expected to finish the translation and send some ot= her patches, sorry for that=2E I hope to do it soon, but I only can answer = with my phone at this moment=2E I'll try to answer your questions inline, let's see=2E=2E=2E