From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Kete via Discussions about the development of the GNU system Subject: Re: Proposal to remove the off-topic, not free software related thoughtcrime accusations from the Guix project pages on GNU.ORG websitew Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 09:05:06 -0400 Message-ID: <9ba04baf-6bbb-1fb5-20d2-073422cf2a27@ninthfloor.org> References: <20191010023714.GK20430@protected.rcdrun.com> <5zkw22sb.321942@gmail.com> <32731221-C09D-4E6B-8642-1600A5D56E64@gnu.support> <8B51F611-7A9B-490C-BB49-632D402D2247@gnu.support> <12e09212-a64a-8e92-da5b-e2702e62f4d0@ninthfloor.org> <73a57e69-4c38-67fc-31f5-32424415fcb1@vapaa.xyz> <20191012091922.GX9799@protected.rcdrun.com> Reply-To: Kete Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0DC2B9BCAE0D288B102FCF35" Return-path: In-Reply-To: <20191012091922.GX9799@protected.rcdrun.com> Content-Language: en-US List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: gnu-system-discuss-bounces+gcgs-gnu-system-discuss=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "gnu-system-discuss" To: Jean Louis Cc: Alexander Vdolainen , gnu-system-discuss@gnu.org, info-gnu@gnu.org, Libreplanet Discuss , fsf-and-gnu@fsf.org, gnu-and-fsf@gnu.org, guix-devel@gnu.org, help-guix@gnu.org List-Id: guix-devel.gnu.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0DC2B9BCAE0D288B102FCF35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/12/2019 05:19 AM, Jean Louis wrote: > https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stallman "In short: Stallman made some technically-correct-but-utterly-tactless comments...." Here are the comments: =E2=80=9Cdeceased AI =E2=80=98pioneer=E2=80=99 Marvin Minsky (who is = accused of assaulting one of Epstein=E2=80=99s victims [2])=E2=80=9D The injustice is in the word =E2=80=9Cassaulting=E2=80=9D. The term =E2= =80=9Csexual assault=E2=80=9D is so vague.... The word =E2=80=9Cassaulting=E2=80=9D presumes that he applied force = or violence, in some unspecified way, but the article itself says no such thing. Only that they had sex. We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is tha= t she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates. I=E2=80=99ve concluded from various examples of accusation inflation = that it is absolutely wrong to use the term =E2=80=9Csexual assault=E2=80=9D = in an accusation. I'm unhappy to see dozens if not hundreds of emails and blog posts that regurgitate Stallman's exact argument, "taking claims that someone did X and leading people to think of it as Y, which is much worse than X." If all of this Stallman logic produces such braindead puppetry, then it is indeed time for new leaders, people who will embrace critical thought. Besides, there is no way these men are getting these transactions without assault or coercion taking place. Just because Epstein mediated that force so that the clients didn't have to get their hands dirty is no reason to make a stink over how preying on defenseless people in a peaceful manner is not violence. There is no way they could do that without someone doing the violence for them. The money cleans that from their conscience, but they are still involved with the abuse because it is part of the service that they buy. > https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D7UbQ1kc1vQU or > https://watchkin.com/y/7UbQ1kc1vQU > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DZGF17TbbBcE > > Try to watch YouTube videos by using hypervideo or youtube > downloaders. > > That is biased articles and even if all that is true, GNU project > shall be socially and politically independent of all of the opinions > of their leader or developers. > > Because if we would join the GNU project for reason of what their > individual members are thinking, then it is not GNU project any more. > > That we agree on GNU as free operating system, that is what we share > in common and any other opinion outside of GNU as Free Operating > System shall be discussed outside of the GNU websites. > > I don't mind if such opinions are discussed on mailing lists supported > by GNU, as such allow two-way communication and responses. > > What I am protesting is that rumor mongering is ruining the Guix > project of being politically independent, they are taking their side > to feminists politics, or call it how you want, I don't even know, > but that they are taking their side to certain political movements > others than free software movement, is what is damaging the GNU as > politically independent (other politics but free software). > > RMS is not require to remain politically independent but he does not > share his political viewpoints on GNU project, not others but free > software movement. That is why he has non-GNU www.stallman.org > website. > > Same shall be done by everybody who is supporting GNU project but has > political stances on other politics but free software, they shall > publish such opinions on their websites not related to GNU projects. > > Jean --=20 https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ --------------0DC2B9BCAE0D288B102FCF35 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/12/2019 05:19 AM, Jean Louis wrote:
https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-= richard-stallman
"In short: Stallman made some technically-correct-but-utterly-tactless comments...."

Here are the comments:

=E2=80=9Cdeceased AI =E2=80=98= pioneer=E2=80=99 Marvin Minsky (who is accused of assaulting
one of Epstein=E2=80=99s victims [2])=E2=80=9D

The injustice is in the word =E2=80=9Cassaulting=E2=80=9D. The term= =E2=80=9Csexual assault=E2=80=9D
is so vague....

The word =E2=80=9Cassaulting=E2= =80=9D presumes that he applied force or violence, in
some unspecified way, but the article itself says no such thing.<= br> Only that they had sex.

We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that
she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was
being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her
to conceal that from most of his associates.

I=E2=80=99ve concluded from variou= s examples of accusation inflation that it
is absolutely wrong to use the term =E2=80=9Csexual assault=E2=80= =9D in an accusation.

I'm unhappy to see dozens if not hundreds of emails and blog posts that regurgitate Stallman's exact argument, "taking claims that someone did X and leading people to think of it as Y, which is much worse than X." If all of this Stallman logic produces such braindead puppetry, then it is indeed time for new leaders, people who will embrace critical thought. Besides, there is no way these men are getting these transactions without assault or coercion taking place. Just because Epstein mediated that force so that the clients didn't have to get their hands dirty is no reason to make a stink over how preying on defenseless people in a peaceful manner is not violence. There is no way they could do that without someone doing the violence for them. The money cleans that from their conscience, but they are still involved with the abuse because it is part of the service that they buy.

https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D7UbQ1kc1vQU or
https://watchkin.com/y/7UbQ1kc1vQU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DZGF17TbbBcE

Try to watch YouTube videos by using hypervideo or youtube
downloaders.

That is biased articles and even if all that is true, GNU project
shall be socially and politically independent of all of the opinions
of their leader or developers.

Because if we would join the GNU project for reason of what their
individual members are thinking, then it is not GNU project any more.

That we agree on GNU as free operating system, that is what we share
in common and any other opinion outside of GNU as Free Operating
System shall be discussed outside of the GNU websites.

I don't mind if such opinions are discussed on mailing lists supported
by GNU, as such allow two-way communication and responses.

What I am protesting is that rumor mongering is ruining the Guix
project of being politically independent, they are taking their side
to feminists politics, or call it how you want, I don't even know,
but that they are taking their side to certain political movements
others than free software movement, is what is damaging the GNU as
politically independent (other politics but free software).

RMS is not require to remain politically independent but he does not
share his political viewpoints on GNU project, not others but free
software movement. That is why he has non-GNU www.stallman.org
website.

Same shall be done by everybody who is supporting GNU project but has
political stances on other politics but free software, they shall
publish such opinions on their websites not related to GNU projects.

Jean


--=20
https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/
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