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[194.118.34.199]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g1sm10809822wrb.27.2021.09.06.11.45.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 06 Sep 2021 11:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <997473f47b882a670e4b9bf6fe3fc66e66ba6911.camel@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Rethinking propagated inputs? From: Liliana Marie Prikler To: Maxim Cournoyer Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2021 20:45:50 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87lf49a886.fsf@gmail.com> References: <045891c151c74e0d66d91973c9e55e0194272df5.camel@gmail.com> <5ba200792813bb0967e388911320b741cf98d90d.camel@gmail.com> <87lf49a886.fsf@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::343; envelope-from=liliana.prikler@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x343.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1630953997; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=LHMFMxf30FbaH9fGYt43L4fjA80w7TzIQeRjya+/SgE=; b=t2jkfoYSAD/pang8gFCM2vy8s02VUkTE6CB4cVpppp77sKGUxRUtVYcsBqNxi6lKmY9HAe 3IwiZvAi/E5O09iC0V7hBx9hUqRSqBq3vyjakZrMa8uNLe0fn/o5oOM2U3irpMFaq/jXI0 9S5TfehqCM5IYdLrAP43dYWZKc/BYjIjQz8FxEuSWQ3AjqShOtTQlD3GL7ZpCgYPaXkvL0 1jhSxX41VV/u6Xoao+yc1HQz+cFBpvTSGUUhNd3WLpMLf0NWw3+2QbmzL22K2lQVBAKXmH X+0B8h27wfIUzsGPjPCPgv/fykdRrdarAYECoKcV7kXjPQwtKzWhPrr78aHq7A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1630953997; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=XwxohA55aB3pMyoOsB/mE/ifrkmmAFCsCTMsGYBQH1fqELkrGzPx3397tALXKupKR0xDA4 D/BRXlHARGiSrZApyCPInWwf2KssRBtnnCwwyQ2fv8cGb908oDktfRhhwo72X1QN8zT0kW 6dZV7BSAFkM9XDZ4so2tpbN2abWhCa1iv2NDmZ1shxidHUyfhmtMRtByZ7YSCIqFjsZlZy 74u+PBovtQfsErP6dNXmBU0518QoTJJQioNA/jDXzsU/waBkHe2tXzCF0yGDGQafa9bSZW tnNjbUGPtae60MzVCaQR1JikKbem3L39FF+Lr6uwmfAA5XHtoj9aOONJt53FuQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Qz350rRq; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.32 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Qz350rRq; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 1F6C81E109 X-Spam-Score: -0.32 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: UuKVBQGKXadJ Hi, Am Montag, den 06.09.2021, 14:07 -0400 schrieb Maxim Cournoyer: > Hello, > > Liliana Marie Prikler writes: > > > Hi > > > > Am Sonntag, den 05.09.2021, 18:17 +0200 schrieb Maxime Devos: > > > Liliana Marie Prikler schreef op za 04-09-2021 om 20:24 [+0200]: > > > > Hi Guix, > > > > > > > > some while ago we made the decision to propagate inputs, that > > > > are > > > > mentioned in pkg-config files, the rationale being that those > > > > propagated inputs will be needed in packages in order to > > > > compile. This > > > > has saved us some typing, but at a cost. For instance, it is > > > > now > > > > no > > > > longer possible to upgrade "zile" > > > > > > Zile doesn't propagate glib: it's in inputs, not propagated- > > > inputs: > > > https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/tree/gnu/packages/zile.scm#n84. > > Oops, what a blunder. It turns out my mistake was > > > > " and "icecat" independently, because > > > > both propagate glib. "libreoffice" and "telegram-desktop", two > > > > packages that have failed us loudly before, are also in that > > > > list. > > > > > > libreoffice doesn't propagate anything. Neither does icecat. > > It seems the original issue pointed at was somewhat misguided; is > there still something to be fixed about propagated inputs? It seems > the discussion has moved toward handling propagated inputs for the > use of pkg-config. While those two examples were picked from a set, that might arguably be too large, the point still stands that far too many packages are propagating glib through some way or another. Rhythmbox for instance propagates it through dconf, Polari through telepathy-glib, and so on. The question I've been poking at has always been that of propagating packages mentioned by pkg-config, because that's the main reason glib gets propagated by a bunch of related libraries. There are some fundamental flaws with certain software like GTKSourceView, that can't function unless propagated by the package using it, but those are more limited in the number of packages they affect. There's still 355 packages somehow propagating glib (about a third of all packages dependant on glib). Sometimes those packages can be fixed without propagation. For instance, a meld bug that still exists on master would probably disappear by applying , which mentions that installing or propagating some package would also fix this for some. Perhaps instead of propagating packages mentioned by pkg-config, we could symlink the required .pc files in an additional phase. Then, as per what Maxime Devos mentioned for "build" outputs, we would always have the packages present in the build environment even if they're not propagated. WDYT? > What are the current problems with it, and what would the advantages > be to move away from the status quo? If there aren't clear benefits, > I'd prefer the status quo, abstaining from the added complexity. The problem with propagated packages is that they devolve Guix into a traditional distro in which you can not upgrade parts of your system without also upgrading other parts. This is all fine and dandy when it affects related systems, e.g. only Emacs packages, but if two random packages can crash because they depend on some low-level library, that's very, very bad. I think we should try to minimize the occurrences of that. Thanks