From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: "Raghav Gururajan" Subject: Re: Proposal for Outreachy (May-August 2020) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 07:06:26 +0000 Message-ID: <8d6e8525703d214f1e4e28dd1afb654e@disroot.org> References: <20200107190658.5f35fcbe@kompiuter> <229482977533dfdcef5a2d60bbc94aee@disroot.org> <4961cfee44055bbb285157a76158f274@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44738) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ip5QF-0007RC-Om for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 02:06:33 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ip5QE-0007jl-AG for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 02:06:31 -0500 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:48736) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ip5QD-0007ht-Jn for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jan 2020 02:06:30 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20200107190658.5f35fcbe@kompiuter> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: Jan Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Hello Jan!=0A=0A> In my opinion we should stay away from GNOME, because i= t is a Red Hat=0A> project, rather than GNU now. More than this, GNOME ma= kes some bad for=0A> user freedom decisions, for example they promote non= free software in=0A> their "Software" application. They also promote nonf= ree services such as=0A> Facebook, Google mail, etc. in their "Online acc= ounts" application.=0A> They also make some poor design decisions such as= adding support for=0A> flatpak, which is going to have support for "paid= ", which most=0A> probably means nonfree applications and they add more a= nd more=0A> systemd-only features (systemd's problem is feature creep, so= ftware=0A> bloat, uncooperative developers and merging projects into syst= emd,=0A> without any reason).=0A=0AYeah, I am too disappointed by some or= half of the things they incorporated into the project. The thing is, I w= ant to bring more newcomers of GNU+Linux System into Guix. I would like t= o see Guix being deployed as mainstream system for domestic and commercia= l purposes. For domestic users, there is a high requirement for graphical= interfaces. Unfortunately, currently we have only GNOME and KDE as full-= blown desktop environments. They both have similar issues regarding softw= are freedom and software creep. GNOME Software, QtWebKIT etc. Also. they= both are tightly integrated redhat creeps such as network-manager, pulse= audio, dbus and systemd. The only reasons for me to lean towards GNOME ov= er KDE, is that 1) Being GNU Project (hope it stays) 2) Being GTK based (= shared dependency with most other free softwares).=0A=0AI also see anothe= r light. Enlightenment. The EFL library is independent of gnome, kde and = redhat related stuffs. It has systemd only as optional dependency. Also u= ses connman over network-manager. May there is some hope here. Once Enlig= htenment grows into drop-in replacement of GNOME or KDE. I will definitel= y be shifting my focus from GNOME to Enlightenment.=0A=0A> That's why I w= ould like to see XFCE being improved rather than=0A> GNOME.=0A=0AI love t= he design principles of Xfce. Modularity and re-usability. The only downs= ide I face with Xfce are 1) Depends on GNOME stuff, dbus etc. 2) Not as f= eature-rich as GNOME or KDE. Anyway, Xfce is good light-weight DE fpr new= -comers. That's why Xfce is still on my hope list.=0A=0A> Ideally both GN= OME and XFCE should work well on Guix, but if we have to=0A> choose betwe= en those two, I vote for XFCE.=0A> =0A> But that's my private opinion, it= 'd be better, if Guix maintainers told=0A> what they think about it.=0A= =0ALet's not constrain ourselves by stating something as just opinion. :-= ) The matters you mentioned are real issues and factually causing trouble= in software freedom. :-)=0A=0ARegards,=0ARG.