From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id sGADKDafimDUcQEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:57:42 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id GDTvIzafimAKbwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 11:57:42 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5EEB2519F for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:57:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:55828 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lc5Ib-0005ql-4d for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 07:57:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36688) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lc5IR-0005qd-GD for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 07:57:31 -0400 Received: from mail.zaclys.net ([178.33.93.72]:43063) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lc5IP-0003hi-3n; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 07:57:31 -0400 Received: from guix-xps-2.local (lsl43-1_migr-78-195-19-20.fbx.proxad.net [78.195.19.20] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.zaclys.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id 13TBvQ5S032982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:57:26 +0200 DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.zaclys.net 13TBvQ5S032982 Authentication-Results: mail.zaclys.net; spf=fail smtp.mailfrom=lle-bout@zaclys.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zaclys.net; s=default; t=1619697446; bh=bwoAtHLfiRKKVi0K2r3yTUvKixx3mg9hhk8wm+dHJlQ=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=EfvBCFAEonfp7nWlg4akuWISv1PscRvKJORd4Zd8HdlrjMyBrY2WxDSln/6aTeOVd 2wKO4ec3N1xR5BLvFQT/SB6Ao5XRnrJXuAZB+GB7Zhbk2N4Tn8UFNbcrTaYAYN5wcu XB3SQBrFEXM/NFuqqF4Vfmlr/ANGaiZ/FUEThbT4= Message-ID: <8b0b1a38c4ce9a5f2a01125dcdc8ac381e423337.camel@zaclys.net> Subject: Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?L=E9o?= Le Bouter To: Leo Prikler , Marius Bakke Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:57:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: <5625b10bbae00a3ad57b09c374f56aada62fe465.camel@student.tugraz.at> References: <87tunz11mf.fsf@netris.org> <87r1j30xmo.fsf@netris.org> <87czumypz3.fsf@netris.org> <87o8e4zy5k.fsf@gmail.com> <5cbbfa9b258fb28beb9288685ccc85b4d015cd8a.camel@zaclys.net> <8735vgkttf.fsf@netris.org> <475c152f2e4bf0b566324223f2f5e3598279b87f.camel@zaclys.net> <87eeext6h4.fsf@nckx> <87lf92h0ei.fsf@gnu.org> <98b3fbcb1b5b88be5ace3c6ddbbe9308bb5de952.camel@zaclys.net> <5625b10bbae00a3ad57b09c374f56aada62fe465.camel@student.tugraz.at> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-KS6WLgkJry2F4QJoyU1l" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=178.33.93.72; envelope-from=lle-bout@zaclys.net; helo=mail.zaclys.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1619697462; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=bwoAtHLfiRKKVi0K2r3yTUvKixx3mg9hhk8wm+dHJlQ=; b=vA/lHq5sVbVMQ69NA4Tel/3kTP/Szn91Sxmqv7AFzMfJFPpr1D0fMTVQ0rczYNF6lP4c4p pcXe7S9I0vSK83kArIEMm+wWFayKQYGN2aPR9iIP9BRt2w4nL+IFvJadYEoOXXx5aVP7R1 3FcH1IHyLf5EVIfVI9GwuCp7lETLaf/isOOORnlxWaH7MuDVVSivfP+Vkp8tZvxduoKBrj uZjh/dJVGWuvPfh/VhuFaqWxb0J6/0dpVJX++NoFxjUsPzoWESKqraab9fWJUOjNbzuCmA S04ExYM4jnibH9DSGx94pGplT19lp6uFiRH/KYxcJ6wc0a090lVtT9gsPkmHmQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1619697462; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=MM+8DkCpA81w+UygZbc2jlxYqYcj/SBccCPK3xVlSBNC0wdbAOe3mKkwtgmfPWwOG1a8e/ e8VMAaSj0y5mqy+Y9VZYd+tUUGCzaVvG4Ry6qnMrd7n2Qz1DB+Z//+c1pPlmksX3IxJxWd IydHo6zNpfMRlzKmLuG8lvn6LK0UcU+HmcnRTvbJQUIw1bNgihkCfPLjPrtNPBHm9fCQXc ZF8U2P/E8dTQAMObMVNv7QsJhqlt1SNGOZRWxxcFWCOEvCqEZeDlKfl522udGWil/AtlRm +znp6fcOpjyM3aG7KS3OIpVjCZt1tSkSNTP94sjZ7vbidrrJCPT1SV5wjY8ktA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=zaclys.net header.s=default header.b=EfvBCFAE; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=zaclys.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.26 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=zaclys.net header.s=default header.b=EfvBCFAE; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=zaclys.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: E5EEB2519F X-Spam-Score: -5.26 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 2gX5MZkAuHFo --=-KS6WLgkJry2F4QJoyU1l Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 2021-04-29 at 13:46 +0200, Leo Prikler wrote: > Am Donnerstag, den 29.04.2021, 11:13 +0200 schrieb L=C3=A9o Le Bouter: > > On Wed, 2021-04-28 at 17:52 +0200, Marius Bakke wrote: > > > L=C3=A9o, > > >=20 > > > We maintainers have been disappointed by Marks harsh tone which > > > do > > > not > > > meet the project's communication standards, but also by your > > > apparent > > > lack of will to reply constructively to legitimate criticism. > > >=20 > > > This is the next in a series of incidents. The incidents are > > > okay > > > --we > > > we all make mistakes and that's how we learn--but we interpreted > > > your > > > responses all too often as dismissive and defensive, rather than > > > understanding and forward-looking. This has been causing > > > unnecessary > > > friction and stress, and is not how we envision peaceful > > > collaboration. > > >=20 > > > I'm sorry to say your commit privileges have been temporarily > > > suspended. After one month, you are invited to get in touch with > > > the > > > maintainers collective and discuss next steps. > > >=20 > > > You have done terrific work in Guix in the short time you've been > > > around: from the POWER9 port, to the many security fixes, > > > to tracking and reporting issues, and suggesting improvements to > > > the > > > tools. I hope you'll eventually rejoin to collaborate in the > > > peaceful > > > and empathetic fashion that this project encourages. > > >=20 > >=20 > > Hello! > >=20 > > To make a statement about this on the public mailing list also, I > > think > > such suspension is largely unfair and unjustified. > I personally disagree. While their tone may have been questionable, > I > find it important that both committers and non-committers are able to > call changes into question, everything else would not be democratic.=20 > Ideally, that would happen during review, but this thread has clearly > indicated that the review process failed in this instance. Perhaps > informing you privately first is more fair, but pointless assignments > of guilt aside it is an issue that we should all be aware of and > learn > from, so as to not repeat it. >=20 > > It seems I am expected to do peaceful collaboration with people who > > are > > not writing messages in a non-violent manner, and I refuse to > > engage > > further in that context. I do not want to answer Mark or anyone > > else > > who does not write in a friendly way. If that means I cannot be a > > GNU > > Guix contributor then I will not be any longer. It means for me > > that > > GNU Guix is not a safe place for me to contribute to. > Even if unfriendly, we are not attacking you on any non-technical > grounds, but instead asking you to do self-criticism and to learn > from > your mistake. You can (and should) call the tone in which this is > done > into question, but this does not absolve you from your duty to ensure > package quality standards. >=20 > > I think if anyone expects me to not answer in a dismissive or > > defensive > > way then also they must think of the message they're writing if it > > is > > encouraging a confrontational response or peaceful collaboration. I > > don't feel like I have been hindering peaceful collaboration at any > > time, since everything I've done in GNU Guix was collaborative > > work. > > With many people in the GNU Guix community everything goes well and > > is > > very peaceful, when there's problems it's with specific people who > > also > > happen to write messages in a way that generates confrontation. I > > cannot and I refuse to collaborate with people who are not being > > friendly and do not care about the emotions of the humans they're > > communicating with, it's the reason I come to GNU Guix in the first > > place, but to me it appears it's not the right place for that > > either > > now. > The criticisms pointed at you comes not just from Mark, but others as > well. Others, who I would argue, potentially phrase them in a less > confrontational manner. Leaving them unanswered just because Mark's > tone was inadequate is in my opinion not justified. >=20 > Regards, > Leo >=20 Hello Leo, If the criticism is well phrased in the first place, then I have no issue to address it and go on constructively. The very problem is that it wasnt well phrased. The rest cannot work great. I am unable to collaborate in these conditions, I don't think this can change, I am not even willing to make such change, that is, to accept collaboration with people who do not care about communicating in a caring way. I think it is contradictory to GNU Guix spirit to expect me to do that, and I cannot emotionally do so, even if I wanted to. I have had too much suffering due to these situations before, I don't want this to repeat here and now. 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