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* Re: Call for 1.2 installer testing.
@ 2020-10-11  6:23 Brendan Tildesley
  2020-10-11  9:48 ` Efraim Flashner
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Brendan Tildesley @ 2020-10-11  6:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: guix-devel; +Cc: Mathieu Othacehe

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Hi, I went through the installer looking for anything negative I could 
say about it :) hope there is something helpful here:


Unrelated driver bug: installer was just a black screen until I rebooted 
with nomodeset:  https://paste.debian.net/1166581/
Even with nomodeset, I get an error about no UMS supported in radeon, 
but it doesn't stop anything.


Languages listed in the language selection are sometimes in English, 
Rarely in the native language. What's the difference between "Mandarin 
Chinese" and "Chinese"?. I guess this just requires translation data. 
The names of languages in their respective languages is something that 
already exists in a million different projects already, can we just copy 
them in?
Even when choosing Mandarin Chinese, nothing in the installer is in 
Mandarin. I guess one also needs to choose the final system language too.
Random thought: could we adapt the installer to use the same sentences 
from an existing installer, like the ubuntu one, so that all the 
translations can be copied in for free? All the basic quesions like 
please choose a password are surely shared between these installers.

The installer allows choosing the installation USB its self as a target, 
which I imagine would result in a disaster? People can shoot themselves 
in the foot if they want I guess?

No indication of what buttons one needs to use what: space, enter, tab, 
nor that there are other TTYs with documentation and how to get to them.

Enter selects and takes you to the next line when its an input box, but 
it does not select and take you out of it to the button below if it is 
the bottom most checkbox. one must then move to the tab button.

Down arrow in a checkbox list takes you down to the bottom of the list, 
but then it will not jump out to the button below. It does take you from 
Ok to Exit though, like left-right, but it wont cross the barriers.

space doesnt select menu items, but does select and move down checkbox 
lists, and selects buttons

I found my self switching between enter, tab, and space to get through, 
by going of intuition and thinking "do what i mean".

Perhaps Esc should escape when it makes sense.


After getting through the install with encrypted root, The install 
finally fails trying to install grub with:

|Installing for i386-pc platform. grub-install: warning: this GPT 
partition label contains no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be 
possible. grub-install: error: embedding is not possible, but this is 
required for RAID and LVM install. |



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Call for 1.2 installer testing.
  2020-10-11  6:23 Call for 1.2 installer testing Brendan Tildesley
@ 2020-10-11  9:48 ` Efraim Flashner
  2020-10-11 20:32 ` pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
  2020-10-12 12:44 ` Localization of language names Ludovic Courtès
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Efraim Flashner @ 2020-10-11  9:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Brendan Tildesley; +Cc: guix-devel, Mathieu Othacehe

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On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 05:23:30PM +1100, Brendan Tildesley wrote:
> Hi, I went through the installer looking for anything negative I could say
> about it :) hope there is something helpful here:
> 
> 
> Unrelated driver bug: installer was just a black screen until I rebooted
> with nomodeset:  https://paste.debian.net/1166581/
> Even with nomodeset, I get an error about no UMS supported in radeon, but it
> doesn't stop anything.
> 
> 
> Languages listed in the language selection are sometimes in English, Rarely
> in the native language. What's the difference between "Mandarin Chinese" and
> "Chinese"?. I guess this just requires translation data. The names of
> languages in their respective languages is something that already exists in
> a million different projects already, can we just copy them in?
> Even when choosing Mandarin Chinese, nothing in the installer is in
> Mandarin. I guess one also needs to choose the final system language too.
> Random thought: could we adapt the installer to use the same sentences from
> an existing installer, like the ubuntu one, so that all the translations can
> be copied in for free? All the basic quesions like please choose a password
> are surely shared between these installers.
> 
> The installer allows choosing the installation USB its self as a target,
> which I imagine would result in a disaster? People can shoot themselves in
> the foot if they want I guess?

Having somewhat recently played with them, I don't remember if Debian
allows that, I'm pretty sure NetBSD does. In any case, that's exactly
what I would want on an ARM device.

> No indication of what buttons one needs to use what: space, enter, tab, nor
> that there are other TTYs with documentation and how to get to them.
> 
> Enter selects and takes you to the next line when its an input box, but it
> does not select and take you out of it to the button below if it is the
> bottom most checkbox. one must then move to the tab button.
> 
> Down arrow in a checkbox list takes you down to the bottom of the list, but
> then it will not jump out to the button below. It does take you from Ok to
> Exit though, like left-right, but it wont cross the barriers.
> 
> space doesnt select menu items, but does select and move down checkbox
> lists, and selects buttons
> 
> I found my self switching between enter, tab, and space to get through, by
> going of intuition and thinking "do what i mean".
> 
> Perhaps Esc should escape when it makes sense.
> 
> 
> After getting through the install with encrypted root, The install finally
> fails trying to install grub with:
> 
> |Installing for i386-pc platform. grub-install: warning: this GPT partition
> label contains no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be possible.
> grub-install: error: embedding is not possible, but this is required for
> RAID and LVM install. |
> 
> 

-- 
Efraim Flashner   <efraim@flashner.co.il>   אפרים פלשנר
GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Call for 1.2 installer testing.
  2020-10-11  6:23 Call for 1.2 installer testing Brendan Tildesley
  2020-10-11  9:48 ` Efraim Flashner
@ 2020-10-11 20:32 ` pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
  2020-10-11 20:36   ` Marinus Savoritias
                     ` (3 more replies)
  2020-10-12 12:44 ` Localization of language names Ludovic Courtès
  2 siblings, 4 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) @ 2020-10-11 20:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Brendan Tildesley; +Cc: guix-devel, Mathieu Othacehe

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 05:23:30PM +1100, Brendan Tildesley wrote:
> Hi, I went through the installer looking for anything negative I could say
> about it :) hope there is something helpful here:

Thank you for testing!


> Unrelated driver bug: installer was just a black screen until I rebooted
> with nomodeset:  https://paste.debian.net/1166581/
> Even with nomodeset, I get an error about no UMS supported in radeon, but it
> doesn't stop anything.

This black screen regression should be “fixed” now (commit
34d436a4082b5c5f23b00e13eb8e5a92d957d704) by passing a kernel argument
“modprobe.blacklist=radeon” which disables the radeon driver.

(This was also blacklisted in the last release 1.1.0 of Guix, see
<https://issues.guix.gnu.org/40599>.  I had removed
“modprobe.blacklist=radeon” because it was for some time no longer
needed on one of my machines.)

Some users will have a black screen in the installed system as well
(if they use Linux-libre).  I don’t think we can do much about that.
Niels <https://issues.guix.gnu.org/40599#8> only had trouble with the
installer but did not on the installed system.  It seems not feasible
to predict which users would have a black screen in the installed
system, so we cannot add instructions only for them.



> Languages listed in the language selection are sometimes in English, Rarely
> in the native language. […]
> Random thought: could we adapt the installer to use the same sentences from
> an existing installer, like the ubuntu one, so that all the translations can
> be copied in for free? All the basic quesions like please choose a password
> are surely shared between these installers.

Yes, we could copy translations without understanding the language (at
least after our planned switch from the Translation Project to our own
hosted Weblate translation infrastructure).

Regards,
Florian


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Call for 1.2 installer testing.
  2020-10-11 20:32 ` pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
@ 2020-10-11 20:36   ` Marinus Savoritias
  2020-10-11 23:40   ` Brendan Tildesley
                     ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Marinus Savoritias @ 2020-10-11 20:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: guix-devel, Mathieu Othacehe

Hi,

I also encountered an issue with the latest iso just one day before the 
call for testing.

I have already filed the bug here: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/43879

Marinus Savoritias

On 10/11/20 10:32 PM, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 05:23:30PM +1100, Brendan Tildesley wrote:
>> Hi, I went through the installer looking for anything negative I could say
>> about it :) hope there is something helpful here:
> Thank you for testing!
>
>
>> Unrelated driver bug: installer was just a black screen until I rebooted
>> with nomodeset:  https://paste.debian.net/1166581/
>> Even with nomodeset, I get an error about no UMS supported in radeon, but it
>> doesn't stop anything.
> This black screen regression should be “fixed” now (commit
> 34d436a4082b5c5f23b00e13eb8e5a92d957d704) by passing a kernel argument
> “modprobe.blacklist=radeon” which disables the radeon driver.
>
> (This was also blacklisted in the last release 1.1.0 of Guix, see
> <https://issues.guix.gnu.org/40599>.  I had removed
> “modprobe.blacklist=radeon” because it was for some time no longer
> needed on one of my machines.)
>
> Some users will have a black screen in the installed system as well
> (if they use Linux-libre).  I don’t think we can do much about that.
> Niels <https://issues.guix.gnu.org/40599#8> only had trouble with the
> installer but did not on the installed system.  It seems not feasible
> to predict which users would have a black screen in the installed
> system, so we cannot add instructions only for them.
>
>
>
>> Languages listed in the language selection are sometimes in English, Rarely
>> in the native language. […]
>> Random thought: could we adapt the installer to use the same sentences from
>> an existing installer, like the ubuntu one, so that all the translations can
>> be copied in for free? All the basic quesions like please choose a password
>> are surely shared between these installers.
> Yes, we could copy translations without understanding the language (at
> least after our planned switch from the Translation Project to our own
> hosted Weblate translation infrastructure).
>
> Regards,
> Florian
>


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Call for 1.2 installer testing.
  2020-10-11 20:32 ` pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
  2020-10-11 20:36   ` Marinus Savoritias
@ 2020-10-11 23:40   ` Brendan Tildesley
  2020-10-13  6:47   ` Brendan Tildesley
  2020-10-13  6:50   ` Brendan Tildesley
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Brendan Tildesley @ 2020-10-11 23:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: pelzflorian (Florian Pelz); +Cc: guix-devel, Mathieu Othacehe

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2476 bytes --]

On October 12, 2020 7:32:08 AM GMT+11:00, "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de> wrote:
>On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 05:23:30PM +1100, Brendan Tildesley wrote:
>> Hi, I went through the installer looking for anything negative I
>could say
>> about it :) hope there is something helpful here:
>
>Thank you for testing!
>
>
>> Unrelated driver bug: installer was just a black screen until I
>rebooted
>> with nomodeset:  https://paste.debian.net/1166581/
>> Even with nomodeset, I get an error about no UMS supported in radeon,
>but it
>> doesn't stop anything.
>
>This black screen regression should be “fixed” now (commit
>34d436a4082b5c5f23b00e13eb8e5a92d957d704) by passing a kernel argument
>“modprobe.blacklist=radeon” which disables the radeon driver.
>
>(This was also blacklisted in the last release 1.1.0 of Guix, see
><https://issues.guix.gnu.org/40599>.  I had removed
>“modprobe.blacklist=radeon” because it was for some time no longer
>needed on one of my machines.)
>
>Some users will have a black screen in the installed system as well
>(if they use Linux-libre).  I don’t think we can do much about that.
>Niels <https://issues.guix.gnu.org/40599#8> only had trouble with the
>installer but did not on the installed system.  It seems not feasible
>to predict which users would have a black screen in the installed
>system, so we cannot add instructions only for them.
>
>
>
>> Languages listed in the language selection are sometimes in English,
>Rarely
>> in the native language. […]
>> Random thought: could we adapt the installer to use the same
>sentences from
>> an existing installer, like the ubuntu one, so that all the
>translations can
>> be copied in for free? All the basic quesions like please choose a
>password
>> are surely shared between these installers.
>
>Yes, we could copy translations without understanding the language (at
>least after our planned switch from the Translation Project to our own
>hosted Weblate translation infrastructure).
>
>Regards,
>Florian

I forgot to mention that the trisquel 8.0 installer did in fact work on the same computer. I was able to boot to the desktop, so it doesn't seem like a Linux libre issue. I wonder where the bug is introduced, and how I could isolate the bug. Maybe I could build versions of the installer with the LTS Linux or other versions to see if they work. Could the use of kmscon  possibly be related?

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Localization of language names
  2020-10-11  6:23 Call for 1.2 installer testing Brendan Tildesley
  2020-10-11  9:48 ` Efraim Flashner
  2020-10-11 20:32 ` pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
@ 2020-10-12 12:44 ` Ludovic Courtès
  2020-10-17 11:46   ` Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2020-10-12 12:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Brendan Tildesley; +Cc: guix-devel, Mathieu Othacehe

Hi,

Brendan Tildesley <mail@brendan.scot> skribis:

> Languages listed in the language selection are sometimes in English,
> Rarely in the native language.

We take language names and their translations from the ‘iso-codes’
package, specifically the “iso_639-3” message catalog.  Quoth
(gnu installer newt locale):

    (lambda (language)
      (let ((english (language-code->language-name iso639-languages
                                                   language)))
        (setenv "LANGUAGE" language)
        (let ((native (gettext english "iso_639-3")))
          (unsetenv "LANGUAGE")
          native)))

I think this is the most exhaustive translation out there and what
everybody uses AIUI.

Do you see better translations in, say, the Debian or Ubuntu installers?

If so, that could indicate we’re doing something wrong, such as using
the wrong message catalog.

Thanks,
Ludo’.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Call for 1.2 installer testing.
  2020-10-11 20:32 ` pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
  2020-10-11 20:36   ` Marinus Savoritias
  2020-10-11 23:40   ` Brendan Tildesley
@ 2020-10-13  6:47   ` Brendan Tildesley
  2020-10-13  6:50   ` Brendan Tildesley
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Brendan Tildesley @ 2020-10-13  6:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: pelzflorian (Florian Pelz); +Cc: guix-devel

On 12/10/20 6:32 am, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 05:23:30PM +1100, Brendan Tildesley wrote:
>> Hi, I went through the installer looking for anything negative I could say
>> about it :) hope there is something helpful here:
> Thank you for testing!
>
>
>> Unrelated driver bug: installer was just a black screen until I rebooted
>> with nomodeset:  https://paste.debian.net/1166581/
>> Even with nomodeset, I get an error about no UMS supported in radeon, but it
>> doesn't stop anything.
> This black screen regression should be “fixed” now (commit
> 34d436a4082b5c5f23b00e13eb8e5a92d957d704) by passing a kernel argument
> “modprobe.blacklist=radeon” which disables the radeon driver.

I think you copy-pasted the wrong link in to that commit. it links to a 
thread about the translation stuff i mentioned below, not about the 
radeon driver.

- https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2019-03/msg00441.html




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Call for 1.2 installer testing.
  2020-10-11 20:32 ` pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
                     ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-10-13  6:47   ` Brendan Tildesley
@ 2020-10-13  6:50   ` Brendan Tildesley
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Brendan Tildesley @ 2020-10-13  6:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: pelzflorian (Florian Pelz); +Cc: guix-devel

Actually never mind, you did mention it underneath that, I should have 
kept reading!!




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Localization of language names
  2020-10-12 12:44 ` Localization of language names Ludovic Courtès
@ 2020-10-17 11:46   ` Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas
  2020-10-21 13:26     ` Ludovic Courtès
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas @ 2020-10-17 11:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: guix-devel, Mathieu Othacehe, Brendan Tildesley


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1380 bytes --]

Hi,

Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:
> Brendan Tildesley <mail@brendan.scot> skribis:
>
>> Languages listed in the language selection are sometimes in English,
>> Rarely in the native language.
>
> We take language names and their translations from the ‘iso-codes’
> package, specifically the “iso_639-3” message catalog.  Quoth
> (gnu installer newt locale):
>
>     (lambda (language)
>       (let ((english (language-code->language-name iso639-languages
>                                                    language)))
>         (setenv "LANGUAGE" language)
>         (let ((native (gettext english "iso_639-3")))
>           (unsetenv "LANGUAGE")
>           native)))

Yesterday I took a look at this issue and the problem was that the
installed locale during these calls to gettext was the default one: C.
I've attached a patch that fixes this and now the installer shows
language names in the language itself.

Nonetheless, it didn't work when I removed the call from installer to
installer-real, as the there comment says, and set the locale directly
in the line added by the patch.  Therefore I need to take a deeper look
into libc code to really understand what's happening there, and check if
it is possible to remove that extra call in the future, or find a
satisfactory explanation at least.

Happy hacking!
Miguel


[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1.2: 0001-installer-Call-setlocale-after-init-gettext.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 960 bytes --]

From 69b8d919a802d72fca218b7dfd9e7719c4711544 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: =?UTF-8?q?Miguel=20=C3=81ngel=20Arruga=20Vivas?=
 <rosen644835@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 15:02:00 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] installer: Call setlocale after init gettext.

* gnu/installer.scm (installer-program)[init-gettext]: Change locale
from C, installed at the program start.
---
 gnu/installer.scm | 3 ++-
 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/gnu/installer.scm b/gnu/installer.scm
index c582a46c14..f401b242f8 100644
--- a/gnu/installer.scm
+++ b/gnu/installer.scm
@@ -308,7 +308,8 @@ selected keymap."
     ;; translated.
     #~(begin
         (bindtextdomain "guix" (string-append #$guix "/share/locale"))
-        (textdomain "guix")))
+        (textdomain "guix")
+        (setlocale LC_ALL "")))
 
   (define set-installer-path
     ;; Add the specified binary to PATH for later use by the installer.
-- 
2.28.0


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Localization of language names
  2020-10-17 11:46   ` Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas
@ 2020-10-21 13:26     ` Ludovic Courtès
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2020-10-21 13:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas
  Cc: guix-devel, Mathieu Othacehe, Brendan Tildesley

Hi,

Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas <rosen644835@gmail.com> skribis:

> From 69b8d919a802d72fca218b7dfd9e7719c4711544 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: =?UTF-8?q?Miguel=20=C3=81ngel=20Arruga=20Vivas?=
>  <rosen644835@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 15:02:00 +0200
> Subject: [PATCH] installer: Call setlocale after init gettext.
>
> * gnu/installer.scm (installer-program)[init-gettext]: Change locale
> from C, installed at the program start.
> ---
>  gnu/installer.scm | 3 ++-
>  1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
>
> diff --git a/gnu/installer.scm b/gnu/installer.scm
> index c582a46c14..f401b242f8 100644
> --- a/gnu/installer.scm
> +++ b/gnu/installer.scm
> @@ -308,7 +308,8 @@ selected keymap."
>      ;; translated.
>      #~(begin
>          (bindtextdomain "guix" (string-append #$guix "/share/locale"))
> -        (textdomain "guix")))
> +        (textdomain "guix")
> +        (setlocale LC_ALL "")))

I’ve checked as AFAICS it makes no difference as to the number of
language names translated in the first dialog box.  In fact, the ‘guile’
executable already makes that setlocale(3) early on, so I think it’s
expected that this change has no effect.

Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Ludo’.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-10-21 13:28 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-10-11  6:23 Call for 1.2 installer testing Brendan Tildesley
2020-10-11  9:48 ` Efraim Flashner
2020-10-11 20:32 ` pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)
2020-10-11 20:36   ` Marinus Savoritias
2020-10-11 23:40   ` Brendan Tildesley
2020-10-13  6:47   ` Brendan Tildesley
2020-10-13  6:50   ` Brendan Tildesley
2020-10-12 12:44 ` Localization of language names Ludovic Courtès
2020-10-17 11:46   ` Miguel Ángel Arruga Vivas
2020-10-21 13:26     ` Ludovic Courtès

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