From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id 8IysCJNnOGS4zQAASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 22:35:31 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2K6nCJNnOGTAAgAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 22:35:31 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90068C4BC for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 22:34:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pn3dB-0004Or-7s; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 16:33:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pn3d8-0004O3-62 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 16:33:18 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pn3d5-0003wL-Rw; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 16:33:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=KdIHVuHcevNKLLSdavCz+Bo9zrwfzOKwPhd7tT7SQ/U=; b=lieaac8pyM6r5IQLS7up jBxG2wEvidrLEzrlM2n8Hc28dli4Vu5hFmNFaG8ls4AusGvB8eZ/hDWWjdHxD4if8x4ZtJ828Sknm JuhMcXkkRwM0i3jbyTlPe5SgL9S1kPXuUwe5Lk5+XKm7QVMoQwzS63MI6LigHimAEUsGzGbJPouhf LhhFfAu/x/uew5TkYefhTTn23NNjfT9IFGhEa7WMyqP+hCx2cFlpwvcjzKU/FPvCoztBbqCEJZI1b TZWrBgC8raD0tbvDNGCGpCxgHPj2osPIFlbM1hp8nCd278PIKJXc6Q1NCBYBMLEGDsLncD0RATJIJ 2hnp9xjdrCE4zg==; Received: from [193.56.243.80] (helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pn3d4-0001qm-Q0; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 16:33:15 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Bodertz Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: GOOPS-less Shepherd References: <87r0swhilc.fsf@inria.fr> <84edou9tgb.fsf@gmail.com> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: Quartidi 24 Germinal an 231 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9v?= =?utf-8?Q?olution=2C?= jour de la Roquette X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 22:33:11 +0200 In-Reply-To: <84edou9tgb.fsf@gmail.com> (bodertz@gmail.com's message of "Sat, 08 Apr 2023 11:25:56 -0600") Message-ID: <87zg7bwmig.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1681418087; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=sxvQIVTbezYCA9gMr+NU8TdolAXC6ob24DLdoRotHgUP7vLLYSOwQyJ95kyVUueybw/Q8o OlseSbITf7DznkJ4Jb+2nIavhgHikcYphi5NKGMY/9BZYCmcn5qWKnjIZS4mR/ybVX8yy4 dp7xhV1dU8ygdKt+lmJm2qwIvrVEgxqXHdAtXOuReiX23vHfZCADhWlw2T+TMO4125612+ NGNCncMqRVuDc/LLwBbDdDSP+/sn/gBVd5VeVm38vh77M0/mUpn8ZWjsZk97Op8yxGTTcB FxKkRMrHdfSZP0FiHpkAQ4EZR+jEvkYIlSKkM4wB9vPR6uEfcsj22rf8Tiz84g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=lieaac8p; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1681418087; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=KdIHVuHcevNKLLSdavCz+Bo9zrwfzOKwPhd7tT7SQ/U=; b=cGJrjqmJFsgFA73LpK1UdSGnaPf9eNZMs79fWeEZZS9ocKwY2pTU26NPVvbbhEB0KRxPMJ FmkeawlkM/bvnbUHzebWBp84qXnRD8mAdAs+CQ6/HQ3s90aARXeYMlwAgdpLn62phrrfYp +bKkLnJYz2vIoKFD+WqN/31/a/4awZKLtPe+MOHXoQs2bFjB1d7t+lKA08nQZl1SuxUFD8 6s2c0T+uPmG6ycEcKqsFgYoHgJeIROYP5YU92fwk30of6FpQrPd1Gvx9w3hPI5JoUDCgnh qd16AS/Gl3iwHvXGU6Kkyy5wRqfG95/fisrzVrieff2xJlida6nmDgmVaE1bjA== X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.72 X-Spam-Score: -7.72 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 90068C4BC Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=lieaac8p; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org X-TUID: 6Iay8B9vEdKB Hi, Bodertz skribis: > I don't have strong feelings either way, and the change won't really > affect me too much, but what benefit is there in breaking things? From > what I understand from your message, users' configs will stop working in > a few months when 1.0.x releases (or with the macro would "kinda work"), > which is at least a short-term con, so what's the long-term benefit of > this change? Is GOOPS so bad a thing to require? It=E2=80=99s not that GOOPS is =E2=80=9Cbad=E2=80=9D. There are two things= : some overhead (not too bad, but still a bit), and a number of more or less subjective issues. The programming style GOOPS encourages is not something I enjoy; I think it makes it harder to reason about the code (you have to think about applicable methods, new methods can be added at run time, etc.) Another argument is consistency with Guix, and consistency within the Shepherd (right now the GOOPS bits feel out of place). Overall, I think we=E2=80=99d rather =E2=80=9Cclean things up=E2=80=9D befo= re 1.0 so we don=E2=80=99t have to introduce breakage later. I hope this clarifies the situation! Ludo=E2=80=99.