* guixsd offline installation media @ 2015-12-16 4:07 Dika Setya Prayogi 2015-12-16 4:42 ` Pjotr Prins 2015-12-17 22:41 ` guixsd offline installation media Ludovic Courtès 0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Dika Setya Prayogi @ 2015-12-16 4:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: guix-devel can we make an offline installation media for future guixsd ? because it is more reliable and easy to build in slow or problematic bandwith like in my town ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: guixsd offline installation media 2015-12-16 4:07 guixsd offline installation media Dika Setya Prayogi @ 2015-12-16 4:42 ` Pjotr Prins 2015-12-16 4:57 ` Pjotr Prins 2015-12-17 22:41 ` guixsd offline installation media Ludovic Courtès 1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Pjotr Prins @ 2015-12-16 4:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dika Setya Prayogi; +Cc: guix-devel On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 11:07:34AM +0700, Dika Setya Prayogi wrote: > can we make an offline installation media for future guixsd ? because > it is more reliable and easy to build in slow or problematic bandwith > like in my town > +1 (from Africa). In combination with a conscise description how to set up a caching server. -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: guixsd offline installation media 2015-12-16 4:42 ` Pjotr Prins @ 2015-12-16 4:57 ` Pjotr Prins 2015-12-17 22:35 ` Ludovic Courtès 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Pjotr Prins @ 2015-12-16 4:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Pjotr Prins; +Cc: guix-devel, Dika Setya Prayogi I suggest we brand it GuixSD-Sumo. Which reminds me, is there a way of simply rolling back on a 'guix pull' command? Pj. On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 05:42:36AM +0100, Pjotr Prins wrote: > On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 11:07:34AM +0700, Dika Setya Prayogi wrote: > > can we make an offline installation media for future guixsd ? because > > it is more reliable and easy to build in slow or problematic bandwith > > like in my town > > > > +1 (from Africa). In combination with a conscise description how to > set up a caching server. > > -- > -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: guixsd offline installation media 2015-12-16 4:57 ` Pjotr Prins @ 2015-12-17 22:35 ` Ludovic Courtès 2015-12-18 3:40 ` Pjotr Prins 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2015-12-17 22:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Pjotr Prins; +Cc: guix-devel, Dika Setya Prayogi Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> skribis: > Which reminds me, is there a way of simply rolling back on a 'guix pull' command? Not yet! Ludo’. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: guixsd offline installation media 2015-12-17 22:35 ` Ludovic Courtès @ 2015-12-18 3:40 ` Pjotr Prins 2015-12-18 17:41 ` Mark H Weaver 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Pjotr Prins @ 2015-12-18 3:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: guix-devel, Dika Setya Prayogi If it is technically feasibly it would be a great feature to go back in time without resorting to using a checkout of the guix source tree :) Also, I have occassionally regretted doing a guix pull. When facing a complete download on a slow internet line. Heh. Definitely a feature request to be able to do an unpull. Pj. On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 11:35:40PM +0100, Ludovic Courtès wrote: > Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> skribis: > > > Which reminds me, is there a way of simply rolling back on a 'guix pull' command? > > Not yet! > > Ludo’. > -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: guixsd offline installation media 2015-12-18 3:40 ` Pjotr Prins @ 2015-12-18 17:41 ` Mark H Weaver 2015-12-18 20:11 ` Pjotr Prins 2015-12-19 14:09 ` ‘guix pull’ vs. Git Ludovic Courtès 0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Mark H Weaver @ 2015-12-18 17:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Pjotr Prins; +Cc: guix-devel, Dika Setya Prayogi Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> writes: > If it is technically feasibly it would be a great feature to go back > in time without resorting to using a checkout of the guix source tree > :) I'm not sure why using a git checkout should be considered an unfortunate thing to have to resort to. To my mind, it is precisely the right tool for the job, and far more flexible and efficient than using "guix pull". It is the way I've been using 'guix' from the beginning. I recommend giving it a try some time :) Regards, Mark ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: guixsd offline installation media 2015-12-18 17:41 ` Mark H Weaver @ 2015-12-18 20:11 ` Pjotr Prins 2015-12-19 14:09 ` ‘guix pull’ vs. Git Ludovic Courtès 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Pjotr Prins @ 2015-12-18 20:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mark H Weaver; +Cc: guix-devel, Dika Setya Prayogi Hi Mark, On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 12:41:27PM -0500, Mark H Weaver wrote: > Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> writes: > > > If it is technically feasibly it would be a great feature to go back > > in time without resorting to using a checkout of the guix source tree > > :) > > I'm not sure why using a git checkout should be considered an > unfortunate thing to have to resort to. To my mind, it is precisely the > right tool for the job, and far more flexible and efficient than using > "guix pull". It is the way I've been using 'guix' from the beginning. > I recommend giving it a try some time :) I use git *all* the time. No issue with that. I don't think we can ask that from most users. We are talking reproducible deployment here. Pj. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* ‘guix pull’ vs. Git 2015-12-18 17:41 ` Mark H Weaver 2015-12-18 20:11 ` Pjotr Prins @ 2015-12-19 14:09 ` Ludovic Courtès 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2015-12-19 14:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mark H Weaver; +Cc: guix-devel, Dika Setya Prayogi Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org> skribis: > Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> writes: > >> If it is technically feasibly it would be a great feature to go back >> in time without resorting to using a checkout of the guix source tree >> :) > > I'm not sure why using a git checkout should be considered an > unfortunate thing to have to resort to. To my mind, it is precisely the > right tool for the job, and far more flexible and efficient than using > "guix pull". It is the way I've been using 'guix' from the beginning. > I recommend giving it a try some time :) I think Git is the right tool, but the wrong UI. :-) Not to mention ./pre-inst-env. Ideally, ‘guix pull’ would do exactly the same as what one does with Git, except in a more automated, user-friendly, and bullet-proof fashion (no need to wonder about ABI breakage, for instance.) WDYT? Ludo’. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: guixsd offline installation media 2015-12-16 4:07 guixsd offline installation media Dika Setya Prayogi 2015-12-16 4:42 ` Pjotr Prins @ 2015-12-17 22:41 ` Ludovic Courtès 2015-12-18 8:03 ` Dika Setya Prayogi 1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2015-12-17 22:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dika Setya Prayogi; +Cc: guix-devel Hi! Dika Setya Prayogi <dikasetyaprayogi@gmail.com> skribis: > can we make an offline installation media for future guixsd ? because > it is more reliable and easy to build in slow or problematic bandwith > like in my town The main difficulty is that the set of packages needed depends on what the OS configuration file contains. We could populate the installation media such that it contains everything needed for the bare-bones.scm config, or for the desktop.scm config (but it would be big!). However, as soon as the user would choose a different config, they would have to download different things, and perhaps those already in the installation image would happen to be unnecessary. Thoughts? BTW, note that our current server at hydra.gnu.org performs very badly, which explains the slow bandwidth (as well as the current fundraiser, see <http://www.gnu.org/software/guix/donate/>. :-)). Ludo’. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: guixsd offline installation media 2015-12-17 22:41 ` guixsd offline installation media Ludovic Courtès @ 2015-12-18 8:03 ` Dika Setya Prayogi 2015-12-18 9:19 ` Pjotr Prins 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Dika Setya Prayogi @ 2015-12-18 8:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ludovic Courtès; +Cc: guix-devel I understand, that's why I write it "for future guixsd" not for next guixsd. from my thoughs offline installation is the nicest way to autobuild a system. for me, I prefer download an 4Gb iso file rather than failing build 4 times (that will make me angry and wreck something, lol). and in this modern live there is many download option like a postponeable download ex:torrent that will cover up an slow bandwith, but in a case sensitive like building OS, a failed download can be a disaster. my conclusion is it's nice to have a stable system first then you can costumize or wreck it as you want, whatever how many times you misconfigured or break your os you can reinstall the stable installation and wreck it again. thanks for your attention Ludo :-) 2015-12-18 5:41 GMT+07.00, Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org>: > Hi! > > Dika Setya Prayogi <dikasetyaprayogi@gmail.com> skribis: > >> can we make an offline installation media for future guixsd ? because >> it is more reliable and easy to build in slow or problematic bandwith >> like in my town > > The main difficulty is that the set of packages needed depends on what > the OS configuration file contains. > > We could populate the installation media such that it contains > everything needed for the bare-bones.scm config, or for the desktop.scm > config (but it would be big!). > > However, as soon as the user would choose a different config, they would > have to download different things, and perhaps those already in the > installation image would happen to be unnecessary. > > Thoughts? > > BTW, note that our current server at hydra.gnu.org performs very badly, > which explains the slow bandwidth (as well as the current fundraiser, > see <http://www.gnu.org/software/guix/donate/>. :-)). > > Ludo’. > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: guixsd offline installation media 2015-12-18 8:03 ` Dika Setya Prayogi @ 2015-12-18 9:19 ` Pjotr Prins 2015-12-20 12:08 ` Efraim Flashner 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Pjotr Prins @ 2015-12-18 9:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dika Setya Prayogi; +Cc: guix-devel If you are on a slow connection (and 90% of the world IS on a slow connection) downloads are a problem. I am in Africa now. Guix pull is one problem - I accidentily did that and now I can't do anything because it wants to fetch a complete rebuilt Guix. But also installing by package is problematic, though I appreciate that Guix does not load things twice (well, actually it does when a transaction gets interrupted or fails - we could avoid that by caching intermediate source tar balls and binary downloads, really no reason not to since they have hashes too). Similar to the minimal tar-ball release we could provide a bare-bones, desktop, desktop for developers, and 'sumo' release quite easily and seed those with torrents. I think. It would also make sense to sell DVD's or USB's with Guix installed. Maybe a little side-business for the FSF? Pretty much what Debian does. Even though Guix is a rolling update distribution, tar-ball installs make sense. Pj. On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 03:03:31PM +0700, Dika Setya Prayogi wrote: > I understand, that's why I write it "for future guixsd" not for next > guixsd. from my thoughs offline installation is the nicest way to > autobuild a system. for me, I prefer download an 4Gb iso file rather > than failing build 4 times (that will make me angry and wreck > something, lol). and in this modern live there is many download option > like a postponeable download ex:torrent that will cover up an slow > bandwith, but in a case sensitive like building OS, a failed download > can be a disaster. my conclusion is it's nice to have a stable system > first then you can costumize or wreck it as you want, whatever how > many times you misconfigured or break your os you can reinstall the > stable installation and wreck it again. thanks for your attention Ludo > :-) > > 2015-12-18 5:41 GMT+07.00, Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org>: > > Hi! > > > > Dika Setya Prayogi <dikasetyaprayogi@gmail.com> skribis: > > > >> can we make an offline installation media for future guixsd ? because > >> it is more reliable and easy to build in slow or problematic bandwith > >> like in my town > > > > The main difficulty is that the set of packages needed depends on what > > the OS configuration file contains. > > > > We could populate the installation media such that it contains > > everything needed for the bare-bones.scm config, or for the desktop.scm > > config (but it would be big!). > > > > However, as soon as the user would choose a different config, they would > > have to download different things, and perhaps those already in the > > installation image would happen to be unnecessary. > > > > Thoughts? > > > > BTW, note that our current server at hydra.gnu.org performs very badly, > > which explains the slow bandwidth (as well as the current fundraiser, > > see <http://www.gnu.org/software/guix/donate/>. :-)). > > > > Ludo’. > > > -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: guixsd offline installation media 2015-12-18 9:19 ` Pjotr Prins @ 2015-12-20 12:08 ` Efraim Flashner 2015-12-23 10:12 ` Alex Vong 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Efraim Flashner @ 2015-12-20 12:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Pjotr Prins; +Cc: guix-devel, Dika Setya Prayogi [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1900 bytes --] On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 10:19:14 +0100 Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> wrote: > If you are on a slow connection (and 90% of the world IS on a slow > connection) downloads are a problem. I am in Africa now. Guix > pull is one problem - I accidentily did that and now I can't do > anything because it wants to fetch a complete rebuilt Guix. But also > installing by package is problematic, though I appreciate that > Guix does not load things twice (well, actually it does when a > transaction gets interrupted or fails - we could avoid that by caching > intermediate source tar balls and binary downloads, really no reason > not to since they have hashes too). > > Similar to the minimal tar-ball release we could provide a bare-bones, > desktop, desktop for developers, and 'sumo' release quite easily and > seed those with torrents. I think. It would also make sense to sell > DVD's or USB's with Guix installed. Maybe a little side-business for > the FSF? > > Pretty much what Debian does. > > Even though Guix is a rolling update distribution, tar-ball installs > make sense. > > Pj. > I was going to make jokes about apt-cd and the years of issues that's caused people with fresh debian installs, but all we should need to do is populate /gnu/store with either/both precompiled binaries/source files. If/when substitutes fails, the files are already there. As an aside, I don't think targeting DVD size is a good idea, but maybe 4GB/8GB for usb sticks shouldn't be bad. Also if we had a torrent it would be easier to not rely directly on hydra for starting up. Also its an easy way to donate bandwidth without setting up a hydra clone. -- Efraim Flashner <efraim@flashner.co.il> אפרים פלשנר GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted [-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 819 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: guixsd offline installation media 2015-12-20 12:08 ` Efraim Flashner @ 2015-12-23 10:12 ` Alex Vong 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Alex Vong @ 2015-12-23 10:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Efraim Flashner; +Cc: guix-devel, Dika Setya Prayogi Efraim Flashner <efraim@flashner.co.il> writes: > I was going to make jokes about apt-cd and the years of issues that's caused > people with fresh debian installs, but all we should need to do is > populate /gnu/store with either/both precompiled binaries/source files. > If/when substitutes fails, the files are already there. > > As an aside, I don't think targeting DVD size is a good idea, but maybe > 4GB/8GB for usb sticks shouldn't be bad. Also if we had a torrent it would be > easier to not rely directly on hydra for starting up. Also its an easy way to > donate bandwidth without setting up a hydra clone. I like the idea of having torrents for those huge binaries, this should really speed up the downloading process. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2015-12-23 10:12 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2015-12-16 4:07 guixsd offline installation media Dika Setya Prayogi 2015-12-16 4:42 ` Pjotr Prins 2015-12-16 4:57 ` Pjotr Prins 2015-12-17 22:35 ` Ludovic Courtès 2015-12-18 3:40 ` Pjotr Prins 2015-12-18 17:41 ` Mark H Weaver 2015-12-18 20:11 ` Pjotr Prins 2015-12-19 14:09 ` ‘guix pull’ vs. Git Ludovic Courtès 2015-12-17 22:41 ` guixsd offline installation media Ludovic Courtès 2015-12-18 8:03 ` Dika Setya Prayogi 2015-12-18 9:19 ` Pjotr Prins 2015-12-20 12:08 ` Efraim Flashner 2015-12-23 10:12 ` Alex Vong
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