From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id 0M99Mmop2WIiqwAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 12:24:42 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id iJp5MWop2WIlAQAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 12:24:42 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8586A27EF3 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 12:24:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:60960 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oETMH-00019a-4m for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 06:24:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39924) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oETM1-00019B-0o for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 06:24:25 -0400 Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129]:57028) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oETLx-0007pz-1Y for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 06:24:24 -0400 Received: from fews2.riseup.net (fews2-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.84]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.riseup.net", Issuer "R3" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4LpTFb0ZZDzDqTC; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 10:24:19 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1658399059; bh=m+ULmb5gdOR+JSeTPKaL0N5GXGZCzkF0+y15HD/Q8xs=; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-reply-to:From; b=PyfiTgXlcxBtwuuLFKany9Cib2lvSDFaRD08tNEBhjbCgESOPy0b09KxUpF3biJOW vEHEyHvt8qt9M9IVRn5CNgKIq7ls6nG1LWTDmJk5OFGgoODwH1scCQXf0UBYqYbQgb xkRCgUENlnalM8Q0oMK2x7k40fR5bCKqzSFQ6Gag= X-Riseup-User-ID: AE6F8071B8435D9194D547AD07D1B3D1E9704810E7E23AE1AEF634AE064735D8 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews2.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4LpTFZ1NtNz214c; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 10:24:17 +0000 (UTC) References: <20220720005325.GB24891@gac> <87v8rrn5ie.fsf@riseup.net> <86r12fpkf7.fsf@bonfacemunyoki.com> From: Csepp To: Munyoki Kilyungi Cc: Csepp , jgart , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Guix Without Scheme Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 12:23:34 +0200 In-reply-to: <86r12fpkf7.fsf@bonfacemunyoki.com> Message-ID: <87y1wmpxv6.fsf@riseup.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=198.252.153.129; envelope-from=raingloom@riseup.net; helo=mx1.riseup.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1658399082; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=VwMgM4n/wGZTWRc0DgEsPc5lAqUWvN6V2BYQEnly0HQ=; b=Uz0aYgF34TbRNe6D/74dpqIuoXXSuY918AVB1XG/L7asGOiibSveRn2qvBPqANrEm0kBEV jg9fZ+feAVLrEUOIwqC34Yzcsoj0TJi8TOOGXPROPHcz0DIP7ci/Zt6lmnhtunXDr5+yR+ s95XplDi727dEn84q6cpaheP+4uzLEYufAO+MJNz4OMfzG6mSclsFIeLDhDS7wfwFJZiBh u3wTJft+C9yqdz/SsNRbypdMKCJ+XeDG/KqtR52+4e/JHbem9Jb72W5gzCkr3jeNKeOwMi ljz1rjS2JOb2onGF6gEwPo6OsYdLbwuPum5E/kXRgytXT4fKrms/A+G0fLaTbg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1658399082; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=uMEWXcXWCBwcjdIfsRJ3JJ6Eb4+2TJ48qfoPHRZU2Fzjciei5e+9LLX06ZCiOmEG3GuSEK g+4Cn6OC6izxm7X3EzFuP+3U3VumIpjlrweXk9RZbupO4XplcmvPsYuvxUAK/4d9BZsamc ZR+G/hj8lJ9tmiA4NHw7sGKZLbq9s9VlTGaJRVUoteCRU0Wz49dB0SZ4TB8Kd3HKz/SZAA gn5yX98bcLPtF9s/hDLKSV0RwWMp1tDVNgLQNDObTMawZn6P0yCoLThryhrid16gG3uIg9 E/NLBO7fXwnehkpqmw6gOzG2OEGQBqEVxZ7mHxbUJ6lP3mo51gXhFHSR5dBRZg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=PyfiTgXl; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.23 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=PyfiTgXl; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 8586A27EF3 X-Spam-Score: -9.23 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: THN1EEXL9oH+ Munyoki Kilyungi writes: > [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]] > Hi Csepp! > > Csepp anaandika: > >> jgart writes: >> >>> Hi Guixers, >>> >>> I just wanted to share this presentation that Singpolyma gave titled "Guix Without Scheme": >>> >>> https://archive.org/details/singpolyma-guix-without-scheme >>> >>> Through the course of the presentation, singpolyma demos how to build >>> a Guix package with javascript as well as lua. >>> >>> What do people think of leveraging Guile's compiler tower to write Guix >>> packages in lua, javascript, python, and other languages? >>> >>> nix perhaps? Might be meta fun to write a Guix package in a guile implemented nix frontend. >>> >>> Maybe we should think of Scheme as just one frontend among many to Guile's compiler tower? >>> >>> Is it a future goal for Guix to fully support this unique feature? >>> >>> all best, >>> >>> jgart >> >> I like Lua but this doesn't seem to be a wise use of developer >> resources. Those languages have subtle differences that would surface >> if this idea was pursued further. The most obvious one: Scheme is very >> permissive with what you can name your variables, while all the others >> basically follow C's restrictions. How would you map those names? It >> is not possible to create a bijection between sets of different >> cardinality. And then we haven't gotten into how the module systems are >> different or how record systems aren't even standardized among Schemes. >> >> If you want to experiment with mixing languages, Racket is likely a >> better starting point. >> > > Using other languages, if simple enough, would be > a nice way to have developers who fear the parens > dip their toe in GNU Guix using Guile. Nice for > intro workshops/talks - maybe. > > That said - and from a very biased view - I think > Scheme is simple enough for anyone, and outside > hobby or exploratory programming, should be > primarily used for GNU Guix hacking. Perhaps, > over time that may change. For non-sexpy programming we already have different syntaxes for Scheme, like Wisp. Those don't change the semantics of the language though.