From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id IE5YG8D/k2CRgAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 06 May 2021 16:40:00 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id SB0BF8D/k2CrdAAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 06 May 2021 14:40:00 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D0A620A87 for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 16:40:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:41880 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lefAV-0005pF-9H for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 06 May 2021 10:39:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50650) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lef9F-0004bl-CF for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 May 2021 10:38:41 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42232) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lef9F-0001mY-2j; Thu, 06 May 2021 10:38:41 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=34602 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lef9E-0001kb-Rj; Thu, 06 May 2021 10:38:41 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: 47615@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#47615: [PATCH 0/9] Add 32-bit powerpc support References: <87zgxwsxsd.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 16:38:38 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Efraim Flashner's message of "Sat, 17 Apr 2021 22:42:31 +0300") Message-ID: <87wnscdj0x.fsf_-_@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1620312000; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=3xTIwg4e94VXICzMidD7/AhuYzPMQq6fuPAu6EO0t2Q=; b=SCX11/m4MHeCV5rBe3DPyHpUFIBKE9FWkoHmgkMAZep2l7XT/ujEAmNV2gomfkPYOb97FE rUUjzV0FsZB8iRt+sVvtBBJxBhO5vKO1PoBnMVl9exKsvPcHC6ndE+sP5RQ/4ZJZBBgWQs cXA/arrBwAUdbsU9dXe9rH9GseAZNK7lf9drNv0t6pkgaBASrUOTO5Jou96jrC98s0W3Ey 4l/Knf55CZdjgtlo+2NBXmRiFuPzZKBSKvyP6Hm/N0hkBWYpEpTdKeC9YAT/gCq6qSTHlD 9NruvwMRUl63L5UGQmm7U986uU4K0JjHV4n7agDP1+5/xzRhR1AhV9QHe6o8cA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1620312000; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=NY9Q65vlan1NwWHJE0iTCAwgjQfYddPTgLiZ9fE1sny50qUJxf2vskMaS5JEhMbqELmAM1 fv2MehJu7kBkEws/OHCrKi0sH6sEh6PM2kQXhsxb3WFNYKGLVxWFUJr3NkVTi2Dm4b+eyr K5sGcSIBVNPIo5+zDUIQxEFLfer1JFEeQYkiAKz1vvdYBSykkIvm1D34D7JBzmMhZZv8kL cICFaPQY7BSCzn8ijAjmZHYWArjcJVELJ2Pn8i6xS1mHwC8z+HGMtEqEuuUScPeYb0YXH+ P9LoeoIF49qBnJpL8Qe3VeZ4f/0ouB6+lzjR0iS2L93GSmc1V/E3ieto82O0og== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.46 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 1D0A620A87 X-Spam-Score: -1.46 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: q/oWVwLiqYaS Hi Efraim, Efraim Flashner skribis: > On Sat, Apr 17, 2021 at 06:04:02PM +0200, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: [...] >> 3. OTOH, what will be the status of this architecture? I don=E2=80=99= t think >> new 32-bit PPC hardware is being made (right?), so I guess we >> probably won=E2=80=99t have substitutes for that architecture. Tha= t means >> it won=E2=80=99t be supported at the same level as other architectu= res and >> may quickly suffer from bitrot. > > I don't know about new 32-bit powerpc hardware, I think it's only being > newly created for the embedded and networking space. As far as operating > systems with support=C2=B9 Ad=C3=A9lie Linux is the only one I know that's > actually targeting the machines. > > I found that emulation on my desktop (Ryzen 3900XT, 24 threads) is > faster than building on native hardware (1 core, 1.5GB of RAM, original > 4200 RPM disk), edging it out on single threaded compiling and doing > great when it comes to using multiple cores and parallel builds. > Ignoring how to create an OS image if we just targeted, say, mesa and > maybe one or two other packages, we could have a core set which doesn't > change regularly and won't take up too much emulated build time but will > save days of compile time. [...] > The fear of bit-rot is real and I think we should mention in the manual > (when I actually write the section) that support is best-effort with > minimal substitutes. I feel like =E2=80=9Cbest-effort with minimal substitutes=E2=80=9D is alrea= dy more than I=E2=80=99d be willing to commit to as a maintainer. We just added POWER9, for which we have actual hardware, and even getting to this minimal state where we provide a binary tarball required quite some effort. Doing the same with 32-bit PowerPC would require us to set up emulation; we wouldn=E2=80=99t even have real hardware. All in all, my preference would be to take the patches but not mention PowerPC 32-bit support anywhere, or at least, not provide substitutes and binary installation tarball. IOW, few people would know whether it actually works :-) but tinkerers could still play with it. WDYT? Ludo=E2=80=99.