From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id gE1xDLUwpGCNCgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 23:25:09 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id CO4zCLUwpGDASwAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 21:25:09 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6F721AE4C for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 23:25:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:48632 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lj7DA-00081m-0v for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 18 May 2021 17:25:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58758) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lj7D4-0007zU-QR for guix-patches@gnu.org; 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Tue, 18 May 2021 21:25:02 +0000 Received: (at 48435) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 May 2021 21:24:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57478 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lj7Cq-00065f-1a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 May 2021 17:24:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36826) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lj7Cm-00065Q-7W for 48435@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 May 2021 17:24:46 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52638) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lj7Cg-0000yl-Ou; Tue, 18 May 2021 17:24:38 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=37496 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lj7Cg-00020k-Eu; Tue, 18 May 2021 17:24:38 -0400 From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= References: <878s4ye116.fsf@cbaines.net> <87lf8bbzbl.fsf@cbaines.net> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 29 =?UTF-8?Q?Flor=C3=A9al?= an 229 de la =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 23:24:36 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87lf8bbzbl.fsf@cbaines.net> (Christopher Baines's message of "Tue, 18 May 2021 20:45:50 +0100") Message-ID: <87wnrv68h7.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Christopher Baines skribis: > Christopher Baines writes: > >> Is there still a path to bring some of these benefits to users, and if >> so, what things need doing? [...] > Obviously just having the substitutes doesn't magically get them to > users, so I've started looking in to the changes to start making that > happen. Adding the signing key and changing the defaults in a few places > seems like a good step forward [1]. > > 1: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48435 > > I want to push on with this within the next couple of weeks, mostly so I > can shift focus to Outreachy and the security related tooling work, but > also because I still think this will be a good step forward in terms of > substitute availability for users. It's been over a year now since > implementation started, so it would be good to actually make a positive > difference. I=E2=80=99m fine with distributing an extra signing key alongside that of ci.guix.gnu.org. I=E2=80=99m unsure about having two substitute URLs by default since it add= s a bit of overhead, though that overhead is only upon cache misses (I have that setup on my laptop actually). It=E2=80=99s also a one-way change: people are likely to keep the defaults =E2=80=9Cforever=E2=80=9D. So we can=E2=80=99t just =E2=80=9Cexperiment=E2= =80=9D and change our mind later. That means we should at least have a DNS entry that=E2=80=99s not tied to a particular machine, like ci2.guix.gnu.org or whatever. WDYT? Now, what would be nice is to have a second build farm with the K-out-of-N policy you mention in mind. > There's a few issues still on my mind. Even though the substitute > availability percentages are good when compared to ci.guix.gnu.org, as > bayfront has much less compute power connected, it might not keep up as > well when big sets of changes are merged. I think that's just an > argument for using the build coordinator on berlin and the connected > machines though. As much as I=E2=80=99d have preferred a single solution in this area, fueli= ng competition between the Coordinator and Cuirass and their access to official infrastructure doesn=E2=80=99t seem like a viable path to me. I think the primary value in having a second build farm would be reproducibility and doing away with the single point of failure. Overall substitute coverage probably wouldn=E2=80=99t change much. I agree with Mathieu that maintaining it has a cost, but maybe we can try. I realize I=E2=80=99m asking questions rather than providing answers, which= may be because I don=E2=80=99t see a clear path ahead. :-) Thanks! Ludo=E2=80=99.