From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id WJhrAwCSiWABCQEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 18:49:04 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id qJGQOv+RiWCMYwAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 16:49:03 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 720BA10D15 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 18:49:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:36574 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lbnMx-0004fc-IA for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 12:48:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60986) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lbnIr-00024C-6o for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 12:44:45 -0400 Received: from world.peace.net ([64.112.178.59]:50934) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lbnIo-0005HK-Op; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 12:44:44 -0400 Received: from mhw by world.peace.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lbnIl-0008R5-4N; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 12:44:39 -0400 From: Mark H Weaver To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes) In-Reply-To: <87wnsp7yo9.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87tunz11mf.fsf@netris.org> <87y2daz13x.fsf@netris.org> <87r1j2z079.fsf@netris.org> <87a6pqypf9.fsf@netris.org> <87wnsp7yo9.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 12:43:53 -0400 Message-ID: <87v986pdej.fsf@netris.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.112.178.59; envelope-from=mhw@netris.org; helo=world.peace.net X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Guix Devel , Raghav Gururajan , Leo Prikler Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1619628540; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=aoMeKUerSgv3K78eHJJ5diQCGrjHwxH7jwnpQi1Wx6w=; b=PEuKnGdZUuX4UrjfY95guaSWGcK183h0xCdme+2wCGW5aVb9tI46ErmYnALGKD1EODccTr Dzx+r+5XcdgY7wJhZbszzNWOwBMJvmaDXYTzJ0OLs4PFmucvsj5bFEJKqTWONQFJYkexwJ /4zumU0iDPI1f8+zLjT7bgZ3fM7Ch1mGJmf3TCrNYReqjznVJFU6YHWwAus2ROHlWwTUZK 5r2ApESEL81MA6leZKNdj6XJCivc/UXKaC0lgVKiNANhbRtYx2xZ532MW952EOlNDKrKSn 3wVxk0H+oUxhABe1hldfoR/XwAUYt2GDUA6EG4WZ4NIBZf9sACHfdnh9qlZMjQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1619628540; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=H4aelevivoEUh5VCgtj92TjtcJLMdFbPSprROg5exaJcSoZzBAsht+59Bmb7PbcdGxdUyk fdW2tdohKVWjM1PJydOUo6G6KmegFRzvxWwCpacR9/IeuAtDaQRRm7qpvHgTpOo8ig1jDr WKNxFXSHiMO/blVZ2AuQnbwPhFLHwTD3XpMZlMx6sw+gOUQ9XhDEdWzVqwW6ia94c1pqzv zsKwbgWUEJ9cpOwygRPcNi97LiBVtaH+fxYKDAdshczRMISq+3xocr0qgTCCOZt7n2J6y3 MWgFQgJIZLPHFp86Sv6Hc0/snjbu7uAwUyoBYfFYPMKdoSaYZ7L4Rpic7QycYQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.45 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 720BA10D15 X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 1KQWYtSS+zEE Hi Ludovic, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > Mark H Weaver skribis: > >> L=C3=A9o Le Bouter writes: >> >>> It seems you are more focused and spend more time sending accusations >>> here than collaboratively working to improve GNU Guix. I don't feel >>> like that's something great to do at all. >> >> I feel an obligation to protect our users, and among other things that >> means calling attention to Guix committers that are doing things like >> pushing commits with misleading commit logs (which evade proper review) >> and pushing "cosmetic changes" that remove security fixes. > > That you called attention on these issues is a great service to all of > us, Mark. But I have to agree with Ricardo: the harsh accusatory tone > towards Raghav and L=C3=A9o was not warranted; please assume good faith. I'm sorry if this comes off as obtuse, but having now re-read all of my messages in this thread, I honestly do not see what I did wrong here. I will need some help to understand. With very few exceptions, almost every sentence that I wrote was purely factual. It seems to me that the facts speak for themselves, and those facts naturally cast Raghav and L=C3=A9o in a bad light. I don't see how to avoid that while still presenting the facts. You, and a couple of others, have criticized my "tone". This is very subjective, especially over email where we must *imagine* the tone of the speaker. Is it possible that you read more in my messages than I actually wrote? It would be very helpful if you could point out specific messages or quotes of mine to illustrate your criticisms, and to clearly explain what's wrong with them. I'm not trying to be obstructionist here. I honestly don't understand, and I cannot improve without understanding. Thanks, Mark --=20 Disinformation flourishes because many people care deeply about injustice but very few check the facts. Ask me about .