From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id QHK3NoDejGAykQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 01 May 2021 06:52:16 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id gI6RMoDejGCHDgAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 01 May 2021 04:52:16 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DB7CBBA9 for ; Sat, 1 May 2021 06:52:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:60194 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lchbz-0004kB-EK for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 00:52:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41064) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lchbq-0004k5-2m for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 00:52:06 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-x629.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::629]:33426) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lchbo-0005Hd-5C for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 00:52:05 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-x629.google.com with SMTP id b21so83282plz.0 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 21:52:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=t5ut3DeJccTBAHPb4yVrLEKr2rdhg2P5JUdAb0s93TU=; b=hgDs64ZAStQE1lGojuVnLTmx5Ufd3luDrEil0j7TMZR6S5nM6RbkuZUBGTnkiZTNza Yqcl5GN9Z4Kct5JEOwPECzILGqn+e7ZDWyhaoXT2SGp3aPJ0DwbA/4eL/ma92BaEct8v JP9BPgpNztHcOsb6uELkUhF98TsX24DkWFHTfeQ8zezv2hse4HjaSV/GfpwzHQrdH9nO mkSCT9SuvqPhBH0pPq0O/sGWVc+y9hVaGHdyawYkqmQWrAVLHTA4mN+bB2LT4PHQZj0T AyHGtuDnNuMwkRLBTuVlCMwRGqvWR5wOCD+5cFsEmCGpNVea19+F0tv3vovokxP08Vj8 0Reg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=t5ut3DeJccTBAHPb4yVrLEKr2rdhg2P5JUdAb0s93TU=; b=j3XGRJo1eW7K7TnNpNPyn8klgSPqv5egIl/cwvudCZSBRfxzxXuPV679jk2xPfWi5O kg2gw7+EME9Bfgowmag0FVB2AvbnO8mqa04vBD1qiQGdM4gHb6pc5AJ29SacfEz1bun2 fbfBYS9GApw+gcr11YBAjNI0UXNQOzVPXMqd0e1XZgzn6ENJNTZe5wNpf4rxNbWkNbNC iWr0HO0WqZr4OZNfmyne+FDM4ehwSeM/e6rIaVPng5FHGcvJeuwtH3A+5kTKU7nXPCaL R6m8rPEw+Mp/oW/VTVbUip6N/Y2wgfxsF+W5x7m/O2t3AyxwkD4kkTaIc5rxJVyqq3Gi lgqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532r6q9LkiAK/niptQFRsgjdGqwk+fCOMpEfs+8sxapn6KvWBWYk 70YXtiQ06MlAd69lf9Z+pDWVLQj+eRkJgQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyUVWXGv0fX8JoicdcE9DAjvNNshGX3A7zlawuoweNpzW1QKM8CXTyIu3OlA1MU/uOc08hqcw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:6282:: with SMTP id d2mr17937296pjj.168.1619844721595; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 21:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from garuda-lan ([2601:601:9d01:3f90::ea08]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h9sm4340883pgl.67.2021.04.30.21.52.00 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 30 Apr 2021 21:52:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Marusich To: Leo Le Bouter Subject: Re: Leaving the GNU Guix community References: <888c71d21bbbc8dc7e8b4d5396694c83@zaclys.net> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 21:51:50 -0700 In-Reply-To: <888c71d21bbbc8dc7e8b4d5396694c83@zaclys.net> (Leo Le Bouter's message of "Fri, 30 Apr 2021 01:43:37 +0200") Message-ID: <87v983cazd.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::629; envelope-from=cmmarusich@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x629.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1619844736; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=t5ut3DeJccTBAHPb4yVrLEKr2rdhg2P5JUdAb0s93TU=; b=EWy90Xo/id5kXe3eYshAEFcc6B5i5Kmni1h3I5jyt/KXwz7aP5paJa0OWZo2Cw+WsFV9OL yTkfpenDj8VueHkQ0Hxmb3PF4eZ0D5CxDNIN+/9qOFp8g01wCDV82OU0Sj79jhJ7x+nbER onGnSBon6m0LtbG1PK6LWhZYZMBgPFh7dQd3+cSn55uSSQcVtFKzKdswRdJ4DR2GNuVMMl YyFKtBHJSZ3+kyFL3n+/2rQdIQEbF3OXnxsPy6AWkyCbHZ3O8WZ75qGeGFMFEUqDsEjRe5 BX2dlsh83MK+joYqw29f0bXb+972Hc8enlld7l61NsJjaB8fc5EACQY4EyY06w== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1619844736; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=sNIsB3O43DPCLAyeURDcLRO60ScE4H4mj6MaB16Be0kjL4L4VSynSRo+riOKrhr6o5t+zy 1f9PCKMAsQoXCh6xJw7paJOJUeTSOYzq/vK7CF0znO9lTSknY0+NSHCe5QVamc/W+HSkq+ 25URv3tcB3if56UosAcfwEdd1PUS87W0YNPY7hPsS2LOAsJz2dEWK80CzZ85HaipodEGX2 jjdc1vA+FlxkfIZjNXorV3jAsDOMVV+VRYHYb+52xbhb4vg/VE761CUUQFi5MrH9H0K3fe m9eRgZKhbC9pBQgF9ZdAIri9F5Xe47ehRj8zPmWUwOmNIW361aT6ld5Uv5dukQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=hgDs64ZA; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.26 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=hgDs64ZA; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 3DB7CBBA9 X-Spam-Score: -5.26 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 8TEUzm3kor6a --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi L=C3=A9o, I'm sorry to hear that you feel that you need to leave the community. I can understand why you feel that way, but I hope you'll remember that (to my knowledge) nobody has said that they don't want you here. I realize that in this moment, it must sting terribly to have your commit rights temporarily revoked. However, even before you gained commit access, you contributed great things to Guix: patches, ideas, computing resources, your energy and enthusiasm, and so on. I personally know that we would not have ported Guix successfully to POWER9 without your help! I guess what I'm trying to say is that even without commit access, it's possible to be a contributor and a community member. And in any case, the maintainers have made it clear that the commit access suspension does not need to be permanent: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2021-04/msg00489.html They said: "I'm sorry to say your commit privileges have been temporarily suspended. After one month, you are invited to get in touch with the maintainers collective and discuss next steps." They have explicitly left the door open. By the way, speaking of contributions, I think your latest email here raises some very good points. I don't have good solutions to suggest for any of them, I'm afraid, but I can say that I share many of your concerns. The "user experience" can definitely be better in many ways. I also agree that the line between "user" and "developer" can and should be blurred (programs like Emacs or LibreOffice or RenPy come to mind). The more the line can be blurred successfully, the more it can empower the user/developer, but it is tricky to do. I mean, how many non-programmers do you know who really use Emacs (or Vim)? Personally, I know none. I know a lot of people who use Excel, though, or programs like RenPy which are easy to "script" - i.e., program. There are ways. I also think it is more difficult than necessary to get started contributing to Guix. I wish it were easier, but I don't have any good suggestions for that right now, either. I think a lot of people who have played with Guix code and participated in the Guix community also experience these same difficulties, but I guess maybe people don't talk about it too much because it's truly hard to come up with better solutions than what we have. There is also the issue of lack of time; for those contributors (like myself, currently) who work on the project only as volunteers in their spare time, it can sometimes be difficult to find the time. People tend to contribute in areas they are interested in, which is fair, and there is always far more work to do than any single person can finish on their own. I wish you the very best in whatever you do, and I hope you'll return to the Guix community when you feel that we can collaborate together again. =2D-=20 Chris --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJJBAEBCAAzFiEEy/WXVcvn5+/vGD+x3UCaFdgiRp0FAmCM3mYVHGNtbWFydXNp Y2hAZ21haWwuY29tAAoJEN1AmhXYIkadWvQP/jcqAoZbceJEuRpbZhJxNYFv82bf 3/mE/U9GR582sxt2VEqiOQsi15doMLWmsoKw3jSUtc+4kHCPnhHIUUM0Pf62MBjI Yf816EV4a5PZjRCbOZSSqD4tn88YVgclRN0upXsy5+5GrApt/oXba9WzN/tfPp/1 3mQ1YyJscWicP3VsgXZ4TdbjHJTWdSNq/pjkgKiUI0u3cfTe6NxJiIYrZhmTGeTy nAaj5WNkcQpdueWJsu7LSfAWWQk6DHLxuLMD1lSHv4Yf/UKcM6Z4TPXgjaKf3Xh6 4lksWshAohKY26kcNutc/44jB/kMPEisHLZtEZ9OmAFd2mp2D7eBNhqmy7B1zsym UyWzAJie2+kFFdq+KDtDWps6qOR4/wdv+m5bYKC4qRJYmc2DUHkxrK3ZAVFmhHJ+ vumBGRjNUEjvqAL8sSfvduog0EtKufk6lerDk5AAW0mKAePFlApG+JiO3iaumUsa 4niKJZa6X/+rFyxbdpqcJPZBscE9PGIOvheSVEOxxdsYp5YoY9p4hWociQ7c1Qhk D5N04+g6RZHx0nmuKtVHudRaoDaAzfntU1t0ru39n+OSLmlgfphHJR9Lb74obSqE hNaNy8+UgGHNPbmFGZL46wPzCasSFH5izmvq7VEo2pi1bH3tXmqPFr/EeNgEF8V1 pQZ6psnZAU/LPj5D =Kqh+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--