From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id ENjYIOqxsmJ+uwAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 08:08:42 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id sHbcH+qxsmKRSgAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 08:08:42 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDD1691FA for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 08:08:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:45276 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3tXc-0002Iw-VD for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 02:08:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41770) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3tXO-0002Ij-QV for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 02:08:26 -0400 Received: from cascadia.aikidev.net ([2600:3c01:e000:267:0:a171:de7:c]:60366) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3tXN-0002G1-3E for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 02:08:26 -0400 Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:20]) (Authenticated sender: vagrant@aikidev.net) by cascadia.aikidev.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 27C791ABD7; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 23:08:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=reproducible-builds.org; s=1.vagrant; t=1655878103; bh=H328N2Vay11K65PDGGa6Z1DLUUIFVlyU3VWEA7bh0AU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=sA/akbfvTekqtEK/NR44y+1kJClTr/rZYng4b/mAh4XqFadhRr2KpIIrgKWGW5l7E SUWlxAoX49OuQIm4u0rfdCG9NscsAVY3I7MvhArxlgVvu4MbmSRZAoITZI88N0ym+n KiR7jZuenqvjh6ptZ8Y5ct/Ah8y794Po7Bz0O3AJjjtKR+xwh1ouJJP1E4JVmUNSwc gH2XkFPzYRJUiiP/WLa0rQpuVUAawNjIbDLif5gJJUNKgCGQfAcaUmI0KKIAyKlSjM mM2zBjLYVz3yjFA9KCkYuNjolEXXQ2AHvp0QgcZ6dIenWCaP4kx1xZ4KWkjZBt+v46 7TwiAJw0k/7wA== From: Vagrant Cascadian To: Maxim Cournoyer Cc: Guix Devel Subject: Re: Set FORCE_SOURCE_DATE=1 by default In-Reply-To: <87tu8d5ozo.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87bkv0f52g.fsf@contorta> <87tu8d5ozo.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 23:08:05 -0700 Message-ID: <87v8stnsca.fsf@contorta> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: none client-ip=2600:3c01:e000:267:0:a171:de7:c; envelope-from=vagrant@reproducible-builds.org; helo=cascadia.aikidev.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1655878122; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=jYo2+m+B+o/2WmqPfelWUak9Jsn+5KAdn7CSRDP9dg8=; b=iVYCJh0pqhyvVvKRKvQB+5kBXT0eSlQba33PjiGmwJRZyYokSfHmRuJSxM47AlmJCWsBWq +gCdwzFLaPGxnoWfuF7wAkFs502e/xJEum6lzmJ0bAjuKySZS639+X26VJj5cF9qWknZSY HAghiNRgWkMfZo+ZAzjYxZKLIJyPPx5gwfdcPxl37kt7ak+S3g/yrOEm2UP4aQFex+/YGv tyy43LyvS260ue/FHX/zC0KMyy++3uOHZU4NHNyVrljq/TXZF1nVlgam7E49iH+Gjpksjy /sJWKqvPU1IWssi2Re09xM7PAw+cJ7NXeOrXykv48OPwchdRgXNeTAjrS9Ijew== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1655878122; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=aShIWgoWalXRnzA2+sy5X91tchmwY+m88RupxjO2C1Ll2DwDtbtuNDeWHQXkP/tc1tatun Wh03DwEh3yBXy2aBjlT1m2nRyhD4GRytSg0+K0JR8bHrO/gpX3KEssiai01PMsl7KJApcA Qprhz2gz2K6uUPq1xqu3RB88+hkHOPBG7xw1smMxgyZSxuGdCecI0zI3d6Nf5/o+0fqCmc D5QVxpnDLxAYaGxd9I5L6/vbp0xmFy8bYsRvl7zye8WT3X9VbRwsTTO/fQrYNh1AMdzd4k 4n5h1crwfQ5BFiLT+r7XrsaVstVhWgiWWufuhzANgFbjutk7RROEOreDD+/ciw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=reproducible-builds.org header.s=1.vagrant header.b="sA/akbfv"; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -8.56 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=reproducible-builds.org header.s=1.vagrant header.b="sA/akbfv"; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: EDD1691FA X-Spam-Score: -8.56 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: faoEJ5IAuIji --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain On 2022-06-21, Maxim Cournoyer wrote: > Vagrant Cascadian writes: >> So, guix sets SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH=1 by default in >> guix/build/gnu-build-system.scm, which is great! >> >> This allows guix packages in many cases to build packages reproducibly, >> with a curious side-effect that takes us all back to the early 70s in >> some corner-cases (or even late 60s, dependent on timezone). >> >> That said, some projects (such as texlive) might be worried about >> messing with time too much (I get it, lots of cautionary sci-fi >> stories!), and so you *also* need FORCE_SOURCE_DATE=1 to be set in order >> to respect SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH. > > That seems ridiculous. Has anyone tried getting in touch with them to > get their arguments about why inventing another variable that means the > same thing was necessary? Yes, there were some fairly long threads about it and I have little hope that revisiting it would change much; it was originally implemented as a texlive specific variable, which was changed to the FORCE_SOURCE_DATE variable to at least avoid the danger of every project inventing their own name-brand variables... > I'd much prefer challenging that stance than "endorsing" it in Guix :-). > I think it'd be OK to reluctantly add it in as a stop-gap fix in Guix, > but *only* after opening an issue to discuss it upstream and linking to > that issue in Guix. I get it. I really do. It kind of grates at me every time I think about this. I know it really is not great and seems quite suboptimal to me, but I don't personally think rehashing the arguments will be a productive use of time for anyone... I think the pragmatism of making more packages reproducible by conceding to set FORCE_SOURCE_DATE is the appropriate way forward; I agree it feels silly or even maybe would go so far as to say a bit "wrong". If someone wanted to make yet another environment variable, that would seem a line in the sand worth drawing... live well, vagrant --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQRlgHNhO/zFx+LkXUXcUY/If5cWqgUCYrKxxgAKCRDcUY/If5cW qsPNAQCm6rfgJDID8eToJCIKvfz+E4GjMrG2JXwiKcvVEAfF1AEA/I2LL7ztOqvy Xl89KtSYKCbSMQig3HsRn6ID4+Z+SQM= =fzyS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--