From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id KJMPK3Icj2OvQgEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 06 Dec 2022 11:41:54 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id yKcjK3Icj2NAXAEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 06 Dec 2022 11:41:54 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50939D90B for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2022 11:41:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p2VO5-0008Ch-H2; Tue, 06 Dec 2022 05:41:21 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p2VO3-0008Bm-PF; Tue, 06 Dec 2022 05:41:19 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p2VO3-0005D8-H6; Tue, 06 Dec 2022 05:41:19 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=Z1R8/p6ERjaIma//z6QS2rc35c4xYB5uPleqMOKIBBU=; b=G9wMD2fy67hen6Ow4kBN iNtqVWxbdTldchGuq8KdnGPPg1HB+ezfPN1VDKLF7X9bGWzsWb4FfLqbHDdzlJt69kgT1utlSqNuP dsC/sANcdLlWrD8mq+TjXCBfB1Zrm4bIOt3PGHL7G9Pnc9c1oupMRL+qbGd+fooRPZu+ZpPJEgTlp vUlmbMi8MmV0dphg7LyQpYa8v45ACc5gy0NpUsP64KnzIsqZ86R+PfRj6yr2NZj6Ns64jchh10Yz+ 4JUyzdwHYBcvUe85k1mvdHaq1a5rXcoDzklvLZHwqFLL4xLBzvYysqUZ9R/Brnwvr6Eu9yVh+Cpm1 j0siPUrWICoYRw==; Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p2VNr-0003WD-Bc; Tue, 06 Dec 2022 05:41:19 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: John Kehayias Cc: Guix Devel , help-guix@gnu.org Subject: Re: Drafting a Guix blog post on the FHS container References: <87pmcy4m2j.fsf@protonmail.com> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: Sextidi 16 Frimaire an 231 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9vo?= =?utf-8?Q?lution=2C?= jour de l'Ajonc X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2022 11:41:05 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87pmcy4m2j.fsf@protonmail.com> (John Kehayias's message of "Mon, 05 Dec 2022 02:32:40 +0000") Message-ID: <87v8molsqm.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1670323314; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Z1R8/p6ERjaIma//z6QS2rc35c4xYB5uPleqMOKIBBU=; b=klISicUcoDrbhYtL00nT6zocqmro8WIpuD5XNSNVBxamMKwwXP5zYX7ElCPGcw2vBnD3Y6 VRfSXjnCXec7jKZBQdOocJjRvNFhC4f0xX/5fEzWsZSrBvcr5hwWe5sw9WtV5X2mizlxot LdiGRrDqmYVNSgToG5vN0ebDw24UO/Ymwd+te3V4L/DmUWKCohhf+DF4lOzN3r+c14j2g1 SmKq0QgyBIk0eCre/GNzKEtsO9A5bgq28Cvzc7QGS9gFPRJ4EgtDNXYLw2u7qQCgHLvRgi Sx/yTHLjx/HCZZn/OTtgQCF9YwqOXrUxu+FCykAH+xIUz+HsoXvaT+bv4ZJlig== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1670323314; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=N8mAlG5AgD7taZgg8sE9dTFs4ONcbVUprItSGqqnqdoOL8yqmw9c2SDToS0vZmhFOLLDom KKFvMnm7U81mvQ43vlWswwmnEmU5Gw7Uh413IkYYsSlq2XPe5qzK8S32tzm4n5ru7HPPhX cof8Gqj0edKvKgRS/NT4jeTP61GCCbsj7xKg9yw2gCQEo63nuAPaJJGBFMjyksdR7s/Te8 3mskhet5rJ8m/xUf5P2pVATWWQjavYzQYK2WMEzxTCs3PhSS7jLUJiR8KeRoCew99iBdha phmrebywVM6bDijQsDvFtf9grTitL321lw1e9dRJYd7jd6md2g4NNbcE8GQEZw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=G9wMD2fy; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.16 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=G9wMD2fy; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 50939D90B X-Spam-Score: -5.16 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: ZSaoJbXjt8K1 Hello! John Kehayias skribis: > One question: what is appropriate or recommended for examples concerning = things like pre-built binaries? As an example, I had tested the FHS contain= er by running the Siril appimage, which has since been packaged for Guix (n= ice work!). There are ones that I don't see that happening for anytime soon= , like an Electron-based app. Something like VSCodium is very popular, free= (as in freedom and I believe the FSDG sense), but just not something you c= an package fully from source due to JavaScript as I understand it. It runs = in the FHS container. A good example might be a free application not currently packaged in Guix, for example due to being full of JavaScript, or nightly builds as you wrote provided by an upstream project. > Here is a current (rough!) draft. For the ease of plain text email I've e= xported from the org source to text with some light edits: Note that the blog takes Markdown=C2=B9, but hopefully the Org-to-markdown export works well. =C2=B9 https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/guix-artwork.git/tree/website= /posts The post looks great to me! I have minor suggestions below: > GNU Guix is different from most other GNU/Linux distributions and > perhaps nowhere is that more obvious than the organization of the > filesystem: Guix does not conform to the [File Hierarchy Standard] > (FHS). In practical terms, this means there is no global `/lib' It=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CFilesystem Hierarchy Standard=E2=80=9D. > To that end, we've [recently added] a new option for Guix containers, > `--emulate-fhs' (or `-F'). This will set up an environment in the Perhaps s/Guix containers/`guix shell`/ and add a few words about what =E2=80=98guix shell --container=E2=80=99 does (you can link to the manual o= r blog post). > container that follows FHS expectations, so that libraries are visible > in `/lib' in the container, as an example. Additionally, for the more > technically-minded, the [`glibc' used in this container] will read from > a global cache in `/etc/ld.so.cache' contrary to the behavior in [Guix > otherwise]. Since the ld.so.cache issue is more involved (compared to simply having /lib and /bin), maybe you can move it after the =E2=80=9Cls /bin=E2=80=9D e= xample? > Contrast that with `/bin' on a Guix system: > ,---- > ls /bin -la > `---- > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 61 Dec 3 16:37 sh -> /gnu/store/d99ykvj= 3axzzidygsmdmzxah4lvxd6hw-bash-5.1.8/bin/sh You can show =E2=80=98ls /lib=E2=80=99 too. :-) Actually you can use or get inspiration from this animated GIF if you like: https://web.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/tmp/guix-shell-fhs.gif > useful. For example, there may be software that is free and conforms to > the FSDG Guix follows, yet is not feasible to be [packaged] by our s/FSDG/Free System Distribution Guidelines (FSDG)/ Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.