From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id 8FqVKbcXTmB9HAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2021 14:03:35 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id qPpBJbcXTmAWTAAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2021 14:03:35 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60BBF20F00 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2021 15:03:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:35080 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lLRLC-0002B0-I2 for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2021 10:03:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44192) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lLRFF-0003X6-8f; Sun, 14 Mar 2021 09:57:25 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51995) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lLRFE-0003EY-Sx; Sun, 14 Mar 2021 09:57:24 -0400 Received: from [2001:980:1b4f:1:42d2:832d:bb59:862] (port=48034 helo=dundal.janneke.lilypond.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lLRFC-0000k7-AP; Sun, 14 Mar 2021 09:57:23 -0400 From: Jan Nieuwenhuizen To: Michael Schierl Subject: Re: [bootstrappable] Re: Can Guile be bootstrapped from source without psyntax-pp.scm? Organization: AvatarAcademy.nl References: X-Url: http://AvatarAcademy.nl Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2021 14:57:12 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Michael Schierl's message of "Sat, 13 Mar 2021 23:42:05 +0100") Message-ID: <87tupdg7nr.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, guile-user@gnu.org, bootstrappable@freelists.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1615730615; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=vq225PIiKAl1emHMiO8xMRZQTsgjzC2ckMVTvtTRp/A=; b=Oc+cHtSbGIkTUVCTcfsDxcA7FXxjbmw9kXESM8JXEdX8KEgjkS0UELI69sg9aW+GdBXdwp FuLPPXwxukK9odZDxqYz6hxAiEGbDcGXDQhBDcIepijPwOk3+LibGs6kk4WViyxvaZ75g1 UN+7pB5X47mrTJc1eos0srEHq3v1FGWZZTbJKVpEhaKB5OIxJaHieRekwiunEk5XjTJ0aU EaUjsgXrHfy+FTzMzsfxipaNsl0xYNpkYZGtqGvbS3kHBx05mzfDHqCKDZm0CRYD6KcGC2 3WegGPX/G/vQ5fm+BA6nDuj20UmOVYh4t4UMOE5w9o0IYU9uBnchbT+IUDMcZg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1615730615; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=UFr8Yja9WcSFvGsVISmI61KK0B100hNmqLtTithoR4KbR0jeK4OeWoc8GPTLB6uTH+IdPY q7W+U4FQl/mRNbKUq6/v8bWSaVstnG4xkxqt/cIXG2VZQOKhiEiJcw7yeOwIJMJwyfoizG JkK9XZQTK1MEZKQVlG3q3JxT0JJIXLlyOi0fiaife2vd/8MGrmz9SxiiXxjJvvC87+i9jk SjcC1AhS2ZvpkaEUsGi8FfhaibCIg/l9j8AT1Ns/H3TpdzObiqx1oAf4JoE7WU0LGSNzlN a+QOIi34ECugLhaA3Ii9VM1TKwWl41GlzSyc9n05QwRSJLX7phSasRGfGqnIFQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.40 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 60BBF20F00 X-Spam-Score: -0.40 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 7Q6hQbvLcIsC Michael Schierl writes: Hello, > Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote to guile-user@gnu.org[1] on 07 Jul 2017: >> Mark H Weaver writes: >> >>>> Does this mean Guile is not bootstrappable from source only? >>> >>> That's correct. psyntax-pp.scm is not source code, and it is needed to >>> bootstrap Guile. >> >> I'm facing the same problem with Mes. I have an implemenation of >> syntax-rules that is just about 200 lines of define-macro source code, >> but not syntax case. > >>> Having said this, I agree that it would be better if psyntax.scm were >>> written in such a way that it could be bootstrapped without the use of >>> itself. Maybe some day we'll rewrite it to make it so. >> >> That could be essential to our full source bootstrapping efforts so I'm >> very much interested! > > For the record, I have written a psyntax implementation that can be used > by Guile (3.0.2) and does not require an expanded version of itself. Oh, that's amazing! I see that you are using make-syntax-transformer (and others) which GNU Mes does not support yet; it only has define-macro. This may be a good reason/opportunity to work towards better Guile support in Mes. Greetings, Janneke --=20 Jan Nieuwenhuizen | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar=C2=AE http://AvatarAcademy.com