jbranso@dismail.de writes: > July 5, 2022 12:48 AM, "Akib Azmain Turja" wrote: > >> jbranso@dismail.de writes: >> >>> July 4, 2022 1:36 PM, "Akib Azmain Turja" wrote: >>> >>>> Ludovic Courtès writes: >>> >>> Hi! >>> >>> Leo Famulari skribis: >>>> The effort to use the Rust programming language within the Linux kernel >>>> is progressing and may be realized in the next few months: >>>> >>>> https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/899182/6c831b90eaee015e >>>> https://www.memorysafety.org/blog/memory-safety-in-linux-kernel >>>> >>>> Within Guix, we'll need to adapt our kernel build processes in order to >>>> support this. >>>> >>>> Although I help with updating and configuring the kernel builds, I won't >>>> be able to participate in the "Rust in the kernel" effort for Guix. >>> >>> Understood… >>>> So, interested volunteers should begin organizing :) >>> >>> Yup! >>> >>> Now, concretely, how long will it take before key parts of the kernel >>> are written in Rust? Hopefully a long time, no? Per the article above, >>> it’s starting small, with Rust usage in well-defined locations. >>> >>> This is not to say that we shouldn’t start organizing, but rather that >>> we still have a bit of time ahead. >>> >>> (During that time, interested readers can also take a stab at improving >>> support for the Hurd, which relies on that revolutionary technology >>> called “address spaces” to ensure Memory Safety™ among other things!) >>> >>> Ludo’. >>>> "Address spaces"! What's that? Sorry for asking without searching the >>>> internet first, but the Hurd designers are so creative that a few >>>> understand the concepts and join the community, so there is a little >>>> chance (if any) that I'll find any useful information on that. >>> >>> From the Hurd wiki: https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/advantages.html >>> >>> The Hurd is built in a very modular fashion. Other Unix-like kernels >>> (Linux, for example) are also modular in that they allow loading >>> (and unloading) some components as kernel modules, but the Hurd goes >>> one step further in that most of the components that constitute the >>> whole kernel are running as separate user-space processes and are thus >>> using different address spaces that are isolated from each other. >>> This is a multi-server design based on a microkernel. It is not >>> possible that a faulty memory dereference inside the TCP/IP stack >>> can bring down the whole kernel, and thus the whole system, which >>> is a real problem in a monolithic Unix kernel architecture. >>> >>> Some visual explantions: >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microkernel#/media/File:OS-structure.svg >>> >>> The Hurd is on the right in this image. >> >> Thanks, now I understand Ludo' was saying about virtual address space, >> achieved using paging. >> >>> Essentially, if your fileserver somehow gets hacked, the attacker >>> cannot magically access your TCP/IP stack, because your TCP/IP is not >>> in the some "software zone" as your fileserver. So microkernels like >>> the Hurd are usually considered more secure and better designed >>> than monolithic kernels like Linux. However, monolithic kernels >>> will usually be faster than microkernels. >> >> I know microkernels are theorically slow due to the heavy use IPC. But >> is it really impossible for well written microkernel to beat a well >> written monolithic kernel? L4 is super-fast, is it still slower than >> Linux? > > Probably a little, but I am not an expert in that area. > > GNU Mach, which is what the Hurd runs on. Is slower that Linux. > There was an attempt to port the Hurd to L4 before. It is > deemed not possible by the current hurd developers. Yes, I know that Mach is one of the slowest kernels. BTW, what's the status of Viengoos? > > >> >>>> -- >>>> Akib Azmain Turja >>>> >>>> This message is signed by me with my GnuPG key. It's fingerprint is: >>>> >>>> 7001 8CE5 819F 17A3 BBA6 66AF E74F 0EFA 922A E7F5 >> >> -- >> Akib Azmain Turja >> >> This message is signed by me with my GnuPG key. It's fingerprint is: >> >> 7001 8CE5 819F 17A3 BBA6 66AF E74F 0EFA 922A E7F5 -- Akib Azmain Turja This message is signed by me with my GnuPG key. It's fingerprint is: 7001 8CE5 819F 17A3 BBA6 66AF E74F 0EFA 922A E7F5