From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id sIP0LDi+nmAaXQEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 14 May 2021 20:15:20 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id 8H2qKDi+nmAvKgAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 14 May 2021 18:15:20 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AD6F2D7C7 for ; Fri, 14 May 2021 20:15:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:49074 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhcLH-000155-4s for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 14 May 2021 14:15:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46428) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhcJL-0000Cz-8A for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 May 2021 14:13:23 -0400 Received: from world.peace.net ([64.112.178.59]:60364) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhcJI-0001dV-7T for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 May 2021 14:13:18 -0400 Received: from mhw by world.peace.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lhcJ0-0005xz-IP; Fri, 14 May 2021 14:12:58 -0400 From: Mark H Weaver To: Bone Baboon , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Free software telemetry and the Guix System In-Reply-To: <875yzme70r.fsf@disroot.org> References: <875yzme70r.fsf@disroot.org> Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 14:12:05 -0400 Message-ID: <87sg2pjib3.fsf@netris.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.112.178.59; envelope-from=mhw@netris.org; helo=world.peace.net X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1621016120; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=COxqH6PUCvBzuoIu4GQyBMzPN7a0xu5cnVg23V1A1u4=; b=fgiUt3hSK2Fn8wQdYyTBiXm23dKjVjlU0FOBwcFjfsBcGeSKN765FMMhR6HjKdutHQ986n JyQ8lpz7RCwXHIoDu0cIdxSvF2M/s2rpKUB7gu1JGFkpMU7h63pumaZz+AqGBa+446+xxN CLmIP9NfRslpGs8GZPfCh+h/a5xh2XfaIAs2tLk3mvhxTgBRtvyC6FgCe4Wa2WQt1L9/e6 nbl3YF3if6isEfeVcG0T5W/gGbIAHoKb6eLM7eYn6B2v7sHT6KmP6pS5LorWUkTc89TwcI p6byPyrkth6C7VKDKJ7GrFy9G57y7lUDge60WxhY5mVDRpFocfimNLt1GuJyig== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1621016120; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=K31ZDRliWrSp2azKuGv8jnHTAX3XcIVORO7B/osV8CPb1bDsog8IAVSZYPEnhIkdZRIenM eyrrAMhTuxkWRflsmYIG82Mwb0UF4tPaL/s/db5vuPEJnBfUAZUqJh5L8l0Jdqedy3BQWE Yj6MrZDzz1kIQO4pvKQS07sYpQQaeFrIb91JusZW1zVZccmoodw8nZIkxKIU4ItiOZYMt8 r3z78wZDTc0QGbFVEzqhwYs5nSxrmegVxBt9HISkEO0pemutSdwSJEFckc/zGyxFpYNmhE +rYImlYCCc+0fbs1pLmqkfEU0iSM0sGAornrwvdiliHE4bx0qHk9eQii9Dxt6A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.95 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 1AD6F2D7C7 X-Spam-Score: -0.95 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: nlNgXGIqR2ga Hi, Bone Baboon writes: > What types of telemetry in free software programs are compatible with > the Guix System? The relevant text in the GNU FSDG is here: "No Malware The distro must contain no DRM, no back doors, and no spyware." Of course, this depends on our understanding of what it means to be e"spyware". There might be edge cases where this is not clear, but I hope we can all agree that _any_ kind of telemetry *must* be disabled by default. > This is a general question but Audacity is a current example of a free > software program that is in the process of introducing telemetry to some > degree. It does not look like Audacity has implemented telemetry yet. > Here are two links that provide further information. > > https://github.com/audacity/audacity/pull/835 The opening message of that pull request states: "1. Telemetry is strictly optional and disabled by default. No data is shared unless you choose to opt-in and enable telemetry. 2. Telemetry only works in the builds made by GitHub CI from the official repo (the telemetry URLs are only defined there). 3. If you are compiling Audacity from source, we will provide a CMake option to enable the telemetry code. This option will be turned off by default." and: "Just to reiterate, telemetry is completely optional and disabled by default. We will try to make it as clear as possible exactly what data is collected if the user chooses to opt-in and enable telemetry. We will consider adding the fine-grained controls that some of you have asked for." If these claims are true, then I think this is quite satisfactory for our purposes. I wouldn't even object to enabling the telemetry code via the CMake build-time option, as long as it's "opt-in", i.e. that each user must explicitly enable it, and only after being made aware of the consequences of doing so. What do you think? Thanks for raising this issue. Regards, Mark -- Disinformation flourishes because many people care deeply about injustice but very few check the facts. Ask me about .