From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id KHp7MtkEp2J6aAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 11:35:21 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id 6DAFMtkEp2IcxAAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 11:35:21 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D2B2CC4F for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 11:35:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:38400 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0gTg-0000rg-6k for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 05:35:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43334) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0gTC-0000qG-CA for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 05:34:50 -0400 Received: from ns13.heimat.it ([46.4.214.66]:59488) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0gTA-0007vX-9l for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 05:34:49 -0400 Received: from localhost (ip6-localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ns13.heimat.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3D1E30080B; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 09:34:46 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at ns13.heimat.it Received: from ns13.heimat.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns13.heimat.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WNm6cHld3z_m; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 09:34:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bourrache.mug.xelera.it (unknown [93.56.171.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by ns13.heimat.it (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BFA4A3007EC; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 09:34:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from roquette.mug.biscuolo.net (roquette [10.38.2.14]) by bourrache.mug.xelera.it (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A9581B8F8B3; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 11:34:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 20583 invoked by uid 1000); Mon, 13 Jun 2022 09:34:44 -0000 From: Giovanni Biscuolo To: Maxime Devos , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: On commit access, patch review, and remaining healthy In-Reply-To: <225108d8b5a3c5e900009b38d65137ff3915d9ed.camel@telenet.be> Organization: Xelera.eu References: <878rq22syb.fsf@elephly.net> <874k0qi5g1.fsf@xelera.eu> <225108d8b5a3c5e900009b38d65137ff3915d9ed.camel@telenet.be> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 11:34:35 +0200 Message-ID: <87sfo87vpw.fsf@xelera.eu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=46.4.214.66; envelope-from=g@xelera.eu; helo=ns13.heimat.it X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1655112921; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=BwjU0E6730K3lBSl1SAJ8azjDu43nwri9+aYisXUqps=; b=fVKyl8+I7Wc/Sy2WbK41Ck/d56ogkBBNpVGQiGx3I2ZNs8f4iFCWnGyqNv3qp1jTLEGGZh 6OBuTx27dLdYfzHijiEJmnCVcXCEU/V15MdHkZix/8k/rqRVretdMNyGSd37P6GZLuwaeb 4p0ZvEIWn0gf8HQgClUKeFRXRcRYuQ6pJ1JZ4vzK+pQGE4EgpGiPHN7gvshKanFCIBnNvb tue/yJE3Nc3Vs9/ovyULlCXS8qaIoTlenO+Nl22GGKEFGOwf0YiLppoJ+xS9iwV3x9DCMs rgXOKK4ZD9kWwwWakuObR44TicH8RrLxgfnGvXcI8xh6qYGtghI/ln3MF41/DA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1655112921; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=lpyMFv+hNIH7MRuiu4kP/h+9kgizmhkgC8ECLDE8sTATYTy2so17AonH60cIravx4VC8kc 7z8FQhDQLhG2G+z4JyEN+w4n2rBiJM30t8Nr/AAvO5hHkBnifr/sm9WFDsqWkL3fgh5qs+ sOcnORK5Ig+vhkAppUmoMpkrMC0J8l/vWWTX+Ya40hBZbYVGizq7QXRyUqvfubWcbE4xgi DxIYjFeATGglyxEKeEsPkn80psPpBijBELcbetxiaAs438+T+eiMNDX6sxsfXgf9H+fcDN 0X53OVHT12IJMLSCj27JWPSglBwyuOUURH09ykbz9GWQUYKcDtbQ7wiUWzhU3w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.69 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6D2B2CC4F X-Spam-Score: -5.69 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: ty09y+KoWtGl --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Maxime and all, I'm so sorry this discussion is shifting to the actual meaning of reproducible... especially since Maxime and many of us know it very well I'm sure 95% of people I know would not understand me if I tell them that their software should be reproducible, they should study a little bit (effort) what software is to really understand what I mean... or Just Trust Us=E2=84=A2 Maxime Devos writes: [...] > It's =E2=80=98reproducible=E2=80=99 in the trivial sense that you can =E2= =80=98reproduce=E2=80=99 a > scientific paper by putting it a photocopier. Maxime I have a question for you please: do you really think that in the NixOS community (or any other project mentioned in https://reproducible-builds.org/who/projects/) the term reproducible is interpreted in that way? That's not reproducible in this context [1] (I mean software reproducibility), or to be unambiguous we should always use "build reproducible" instead of "reproducible" so we amost recall some context [2]? IMVHO if we continue using the term reproducible in that trivial way [3] when talking about software (this include each and every scientific paper [4]), we will never get to any point; reproducible is what reproducible means: https://reproducible-builds.org/docs/definition/ I was just hoping that nowadays "reproducible" is perceived as "build reproducible" (as defined in the definition above) by all software developers and many users (including scientists) ... the same holds for "bootstrappable" (in this context) Happy Hacking! Gio' P.S.: or you Maxime are just playng the devil's advocate? :-D [1] context is what defines the meaning of symbols ;-) [2] build what? [3] scan and print (aka copy) and distribute the compiled binary artifact [4] is it software even if not always expressed in a programming language? (my guess is yes) =2D-=20 Giovanni Biscuolo Xelera IT Infrastructures --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJABAEBCgAqFiEERcxjuFJYydVfNLI5030Op87MORIFAmKnBKwMHGdAeGVsZXJh LmV1AAoJENN9DqfOzDkSiDQQAKX393Jazg0/JE0Q0ckPwDsguePdUfRk9ozIx3TA Uqln+QnXn1ekEFmE7aDUcrQ6ao9TwfTjutvIlldUkj9kE+AB/9NP59oR2QXpNvBh LGzkceytMwxuMt80Oit+cH/gO5apJ2iPb88nqB1v2U968KbMDXqyJd++BtS3RaC0 95pH9iLjF8M+xaj9RZcOKm3e1dTEcLNCptwawPKSOcLnt/DOjqMXp2qqN4wf0YT/ 6LcW2kPd4gw7mdj2lXfP6KDAIbJWPyE4YApTIYNZe3ug3+L4uiQrIF+85hRyS29n DMD4uLbOoReAgMutdPRaO2flkxyhvD93Nz/E2ewTErGBYsNVCRUHxP7sRWSa/zGU fqhGb0o+sALoPyZQAxtQlFDL7g7oJNLUmyVBH2hgPlgnLfs0yWxAeqBsqNjqIQdS kbcYFfBnCSK9uoRv9Oyh/AZ5uHwn+wwc4BXdDE2qVAyrEW2+bz9RzrskPO7Y4gPK qch4zgb3HXZK/FlU+tNNhRRbtlq07XHLRICrPQ3g4mfS3c/ik6vGwFYU9+/GeJq4 h+24lGx2fQpelg+GxJhM8UavngHQHwMSQTTTTjp54thtMEnq/i0Ksd6t1NnGoJbp yrGsxZ5YJhgdSVjTc6K9G4suw4pw3o9D/ybFbBOT10so5GFPNaLImat0zry7K1WF iLA+ =DPb9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--