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Sat, 9 Mar 2024 10:40:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ritAx-0003FJ-MM; Sat, 09 Mar 2024 04:39:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ritAw-0003FA-KJ for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2024 04:39:30 -0500 Received: from jpoiret.xyz ([206.189.101.64]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ritAu-0006eB-N5 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2024 04:39:30 -0500 Received: from authenticated-user (jpoiret.xyz [206.189.101.64]) by jpoiret.xyz (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0D02518544E; Sat, 9 Mar 2024 09:39:24 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jpoiret.xyz; s=dkim; t=1709977165; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ypc12SdyXtOoxZUNcgGJ4mu3fHXk8kLpzgdtXuBUgZA=; b=M5UJfZatP57yOVqs3RMJsSUdlD0dDdvn/FfwtxV95ux/rR/eKH9GVxu0vqm/vc8yUOrxNO ty71cjOCFJzQNsCAiDhFPQy3ze0mcbTpbj4hmOcpL8ZoCdm2/MCXnHkSvi1lljB1yuoBZU 56Jqib+w6SafDXKtXrsGxpoIXpbnLb50jnFgf7LnUnhtjB3ZlmypNApyzt0rVTX6K0L5XL mUxG5xiBvMESXarefZyKTIQBQ7F2rd7d0CysgbLG/tqmaqx9CqMpIhw6gX8q5QAC7L5bSh mO6E2+o/ZEi33SnNUVWU+8jYs/Q+CQb4uzrNZlpnDgZDHiQusa0Bur/T0HCPOg== From: Josselin Poiret To: Giovanni Biscuolo Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: on the bug tracker (Re: Guix Days: Patch flow discussion) In-Reply-To: <875xy74ono.fsf@xelera.eu> References: <875xz1n8t8.fsf@jpoiret.xyz> <875xy74ono.fsf@xelera.eu> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 10:39:23 +0100 Message-ID: <87plw3n3qs.fsf@jpoiret.xyz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spamd-Bar: -- Received-SPF: pass client-ip=206.189.101.64; envelope-from=dev@jpoiret.xyz; helo=jpoiret.xyz X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Scanner: mx12.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -11.94 X-Spam-Score: -11.94 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B35922051A X-TUID: 4zBPPtul06kw --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =2D-=20 Giovanni Biscuolo writes: > Hi Josselin, > > Josselin Poiret writes: > > [...] > >> One thing I would like to get rid of though is debbugs. > > given that a significant part of the Guix infrastructure is provided by > the GNU project, including the bug/issue tracker, and I don't think that > GNU will replace https://debbugs.gnu.org/ (or the forge, Savannah) with > something else, I suggest to concentrate the Guix community efforts in > giving contributors better user interfaces to Debbugs, e.g Mumi (web and > CLI) instead of trying to get rid of it. We can re-use some other tool as well, no need to code our own in Guile though. Also note that the choice of bug-tracking tool is not benign, as most other tools (Mumi, but also QA) have to adapt to its idiosyncrasies. > In other words: the "problem" it's not the tool, it's the *interface*. I don't agree: see below for the two examples of where the tool design itself is problematic. > Please also consider that if (I hope not) the Guix would decide to adopt > a different bug/issue tracker system then Someome=E2=84=A2 will have to > administrate it, and currently there are other pieces of core > infrastructure that need more resources, e.g. QA. > > Speaking of interface features, I simply *love* the email based > interface provided by Debbugs [1]; also the web UI is not bad, and the Mu= mi > one (https://issues.guix.gnu.org/) it's even better. I prefer a public-inbox web frontend for browsing emails personally. >> It causes a lot of pain for everyone, eg. when sending patchsets, it >> completely breaks modern email because it insists on rewriting >> DMARC-protected headers, thus needing to also rewrite "From:" to avoid >> DMARC errors. > > I don't understand what "completely breaks modern email" means: please > could you point me to a document where this issue/bug is documented? I don't think there's a "public" discussion of this, but I've conversed with the mailman maintainers in private about this: because Debbugs relies on modifying the mail message itself, it clashes with modern email features that authentify received emails. DKIM authentifies a subset of mail headers by signing them with a private key, among which the "From" header is mandatory. DMARC is a policy mechanism for domains that can enforce DKIM (and/or SPF) for all mails with a corresponding "From:". Together, they prevent email impersonation. So Debbugs modifies a protected header (e.g. Subject) -> DKIM fails -> if DMARC is set to enforce DKIM, DMARC fails -> mail is not received. To avoid this issue, Mailman (the mailing daemon overseeing the debbugs-managed MLs) also rewrites the From: header of such mails to a debbugs-controlled domain, so that DKIM headers can be re-signed and a different DMARC policy be used. This is why you often see "via guix-patches" in From: headers, and if you look at the email it's a generic one. I've also mentioned this before, but not being able to simply send a full patchset without having to go through hoops is, put simply, a problem. Even prospective contributors used to email-based workflows will be turned off by this. In general, the problem with Debbugs is that it insists on *taking over* emails, rather than just consuming them. >> I've been following the Linux kernel development a bit closer this past >> year, and while there are things that need to improve (like knowing the >> status of a patchset in a maintainer's tree), they at least have a lot >> of tools that I think we should adopt more broadly: > > you mention: b4/lei and patchwork but they are not bug/issue trackers. Yes, I was mentioning general tools. > I personally like the idea that the bug/issue tracker is _embedded_ > (integrated?) in the DVCS used by the project, Git in Guix case. > > For this reason I find Tissue https://tissue.systemreboot.net/ an > interesting project for *public* issue/bug tracking systems, also > because Tissue is _not_ discussion-oriented: this means that > discussions are managed "somewhere else", because =C2=ABIt's much better = to > have a clear succinct actionable issue report. This way, the issue > tracker is a list of clear actionable items rather than a mess of > unreproducible issues.=C2=BB [2] I like this separation as well, and Tissue seemed interesting the last time I looked at it. I liked how it uses standard tools and can be consulted/modified off-line. It basically checks all of the boxes :) Best, =2D-=20 Josselin Poiret --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQHEBAEBCAAuFiEEOSSM2EHGPMM23K8vUF5AuRYXGooFAmXsLksQHGRldkBqcG9p cmV0Lnh5egAKCRBQXkC5FhcaimLuDACCRl2G+3cOI2KiFXktL1NOgDz/qWIkO3YI Ohy/ernXauppAtjVzNZGIuVySmpUPiobSv/J0XTbKYMFILVINHtlHyRABB8NpwZN Y7RWI3X30DsZMLaG6nOiG0KbBUDvzGoFGdHXXbAB7KGXlJHmyzOz0ubOWXAds2SN dBrm6JVQ0/qkWMOCAhF2uNuu311JCEujDFCujCsM47d7yXzP6xYylX4Arn36d4m0 vbZxslay9gMbkOKnA3PVKDgSIDSAh151xNlPAjtt2ke1RPzD9RhgaFGfjw9FKZqI JM8Rf/qNyjJcZ3/JgiobeejE5wutEsa4ji8i09MolCHvVXcyWPFdJxXoyrGIk1Ir KLJVG9vrNABNczXT1TmjqEE5QM2ATn6YUY5huG+/3EGQMBwv3oNBMBtRnb6+STEB QGE7sARfEcTL2L0rnxNWUhXZzZ2EgOIN9EXinfiYWO745tE6n6gDUHfTAAlRgPKt jVRnoDL+ixCC94LgqFLYpHGHJrdn5B4= =xsff -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--