From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:4876::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms8.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4J4/I3K3+WVydQEA62LTzQ:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2024 17:04:02 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:4876::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4J4/I3K3+WVydQEA62LTzQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2024 17:04:02 +0100 X-Envelope-To: larch@yhetil.org Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=retrospec.tv header.s=fm1 header.b=nNDlyW3o; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b="O oNkp0b"; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1710864242; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=m46pQgPijL5jJrMrCC+T9x5HXtHT+WV47Nl7+H50E5plHkQaemmcwyLsz/OSJY2RGmttgt M0wxX4n4rGEZq17rnIG7cm0OYpQvflK5iHH4uGN4xNkc4WejSSfChFfCj0fF4hIBsp1R+w THAb7B54FjrhwhIyoBhmL2DrowSSIZ0hhRp2HoJO73m+vNX2W/fR161wbJ6nIR3OlGOXj4 ES4/8cONmXZY63ei2/JujwdXHsLVbVfyKjdP+FGqi3WP9sU4JE8OM+V/EjabHo4+ZYeF8D rkgBlKt56yXZmPgH/pLSkOaLrEr+JYF+d2+/CUosXs7b6LE55Z1EX3KJ1fPHuA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=retrospec.tv header.s=fm1 header.b=nNDlyW3o; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b="O oNkp0b"; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1710864242; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=0FlR/kXSWMV5aDpaQno+qUUgGxEk+EcvVVWWBxibmMY=; b=S8kIyiYTrsqNwVrPOv3YJuSJc5uLkWxwnvn7zHCTJWxT+mEDUFGd+AcdbScxrZ3YUA96eU Ij1WLYobVLkNNbVm7SR+pigG2n7UvjaaUH01Lh/WwhdA09txv3zqt04q430FVQZ7mF44cC l6jDsLfNoJs8YhQF7Ix/XOZ7DnYKkJ36cQC/0j80wsVl9XGtJVBw6NZLYN8wjtVtSvHyQ8 /D9HMQB7l+i45gp8JoZOteyx4fHGMKke8dw7uK4CBnD+XjPHFGkDrCFQZHqfYN7KRfzVSs 5Qzx266ldB6rD9spe2uT8rPcMcHfXm515ix9e4IPRsd5TV1MhYwtIW6b2r/vyQ== Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A8F16E340 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2024 17:04:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rmbwC-0007vh-Tq; Tue, 19 Mar 2024 12:03:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rmbwA-0007jt-9C for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2024 12:03:38 -0400 Received: from fout4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([103.168.172.147]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rmbw7-0000gC-4h for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2024 12:03:38 -0400 Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailfout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F3D71380110; Tue, 19 Mar 2024 12:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 19 Mar 2024 12:03:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=retrospec.tv; h= cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1710864212; x=1710950612; bh=0FlR/kXSWMV5aDpaQno+qUUgGxEk+EcvVVWWBxibmMY=; b= nNDlyW3o/oXB0IydcZsPdzZRvcwR39hA+u4X2YU5Ge5vkQ2h36L9chIbp88aid14 /UgcOF+NCANhcm/DIg/mkL4qsDZIGkBy36eva2JAaZS1D8vvgLCc14fr4R+SPax3 4DrE8XGUcgVWMkjfKD3eC/zx7kN7zLcBaA0CqLa49LfWQcnyxGJh5nCxTn0evp+f bm044K6DzP2LTD/UIxfSXk1y5plMZmyHrDhnAGCf78bYjhdCfuf41IV1WYaaQcAg x9IXn4/wwr16QMqWtO8P/1iXU2ESI7I2Tf6gXow64bK/HNmnG+1jJvN0oJfMmlWs Or+/It1ReEqxK2W5Be3zoA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t=1710864212; x= 1710950612; bh=0FlR/kXSWMV5aDpaQno+qUUgGxEk+EcvVVWWBxibmMY=; b=O oNkp0bz+zueFR4sD1dBs+cGWOBUh1LJxDgMWtSVUFGOJMtsJooNJP4mvrxtXu0Sq SEhIe/RYL14HOGh+M163znLDNxJv64va6rosUweI34dBMmZjMHnBIMFWaar+yZlB SLcGwt19oNPklgTJE3W/IzsmiBLE8xWZGDsOUWbHQnZfvA9PgerQp2rc3ln/WFro 5F2C1uPhSjTWwUXJIFzpqsC99Ty67gNmx9x7/v4HE3uUbox9IhPMTPd4GCjGTrdg fiXfjus+XTgGZcbuuunK8Fvu0TmJk4DNMgAQ3S3KZohLdtOcEbbA943WoPyjQtEz NT3dzpN3vr3bnG+VOGrEg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvledrledtgdehjecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfhgfhffvvefuffgjkfggtgfgsehtqh ertddtreejnecuhfhrohhmpefkrghnucfguhhrvgcuoehirghnsehrvghtrhhoshhpvggt rdhtvheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepueeghffhteduhffggfdujeffvedvfefgueefhf etleekgfdtkeefgfdvudduheelnecuffhomhgrihhnpegrrhigihhvrdhorhhgpdhhuhhg ghhinhhgfhgrtggvrdgtohdpghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivg eptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepihgrnhesrhgvthhrohhsphgvtgdrthhv X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: id9014242:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 19 Mar 2024 12:03:31 -0400 (EDT) References: <87il1mupco.fsf@meson> <87a5mvyjl4.fsf@gmail.com> <87ttl3thvh.fsf@meson> <87edc6ij2v.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.8.13; emacs 28.2 From: Ian Eure To: Simon Tournier Cc: guix-devel Subject: Re: Concerns/questions around Software Heritage Archive Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 08:37:45 -0700 In-reply-to: <87edc6ij2v.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87plvqtdij.fsf@meson> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=103.168.172.147; envelope-from=ian@retrospec.tv; helo=fout4-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Scanner: mx10.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.50 X-Spam-Score: -6.50 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6A8F16E340 X-TUID: /+gqLeZOMqNH Simon Tournier writes: > Hi, > > On lun., 18 mars 2024 at 12:38, Ian Eure =20 > wrote: > >> They appear to be violating free software licenses on large=20 >> scale.=20 >> They are in violation of SWH=E2=80=99s own positions. > > [...] > >> [1]: https://arxiv.org/html/2402.19173v1 >> [2]:=20 >> https://huggingface.co/spaces/HuggingFaceH4/starchat2-playground >> [3]: https://huggingface.co/datasets/bigcode/the-stack-v2 >> [4]: https://github.com/bigcode-project/opt-out-v2/issues > > Please note that Software Heritage folks are not co-author of=20 > all that; > or I misread. Do not take me wrong, this is not an attempt to=20 > escape > but a query for waiting the feedback of SWH. > Shit rolls downhill. It=E2=80=99s the least surprising thing in the world= =20 to find that an "AI" company is violating licenses, because the=20 entire technology is based on infringement at a massive scale.=20 SWH=E2=80=99s partnership with, and promotion of, both the company and its= =20 license-violating model, in violation of their *own stated=20 principles*, raises very legitimate questions. There are multpile overlapping concerns here; personal,=20 organizational, legal, ethical, and technical. >From a personal, legal standpoint, HuggingFace is almost certainly=20 in violation of my code=E2=80=99s licenses. I will, therefore, work to=20 remove my code from their models. From a personal, ethical=20 standpoint, I believe that SWH has proven themselves untrustworthy=20 by enabling *and promoting* this infringement in violation of=20 their own stated policies, and will work to remove my code from=20 their archive. Personally, I cannot extend them the benefit of=20 the doubt on this. They blew it. >From an organizational ethical standpoint, Guix is IMO on the=20 right track by waiting on SWH (and perhaps pressuring them to fix=20 things). From an organizational, technical perspective, I would=20 like to see concrete measures to support my (and hundreds of=20 others=E2=80=99) personal, ethical desires to exclude software from SWH,=20 and by extension, HuggingFace=E2=80=99s models. > As Ludo said, SWH folks are, by the way, also long time Free=20 > Software > activists. > In my view, this is not to their credit. I=E2=80=99d expect people=20 familiar with Free Software to be *more* sensitive to licensing=20 concerns, thus less likely to partner with a company likely to=20 violate them. > PS: Thanks for the detailed explanations. I will provide my=20 > reading > later, after some concerns will be separated, eventually. You=E2=80=99re very welcome. Thanks, =E2=80=94 Ian