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[66.158.152.95]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-792bf2a4290sm81145085a.65.2024.05.09.09.00.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 09 May 2024 09:00:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: Ian Eure , guix-devel Subject: Re: Concerns/questions around Software Heritage Archive In-Reply-To: <87r0eky0bb.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s=22'?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= message of "Thu, 02 May 2024 12:28:56 +0200") References: <87il1mupco.fsf@meson> <87frvfan0r.fsf@retrospec.tv> <87r0eky0bb.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 09 May 2024 12:00:10 -0400 Message-ID: <87pltv0yd1.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::331; envelope-from=maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com; helo=mail-ot1-x331.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Spam-Score: -9.71 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 734E67A8EC X-Migadu-Scanner: mx10.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.71 X-TUID: 17O7ineTuUBJ Hi Ian, Ludovic. Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > Hi Ian, > > Ian Eure skribis: > >> Summarizing the situation: >> >> - SHF has an opaque, difficult, and undocumented process for >> handling name changes. I=E2=80=99s like to stress again that this is >> *not* strictly a transgender issue (though it likely affects them >> more, or in worse/different ways) -- it is a human respect issue. >> Many, many more cisgender people change their name than >> transgender people. > > It is also not strictly an SWH issue: how does Internet Archive handle > name changes? What about append-only storage in general? We=E2=80=99ve > discussed this already. >> - SHF gave their archive to HuggingFace, an "AI" company which is >> generating derived works with no attribution or provenance, in >> ways which violate the both licenses of the projects used to train >> their model, and the SHF principles for LLMs. > > [...] > >> - Has Guix reached out to SHF to express these concerns / get a >> response? > > I=E2=80=99ve seen and participated in informal discussions, but that=E2= =80=99s all I > know. Maintainers? We haven't. Given some improvements were apparently already made by SWF in response to concerns raised, it seems the dialogue should continue. >> - Whether a public or private response, what would Guix consider to >> be an acceptable response? An unacceptable respoinse? >> - How long is Guix willing to wait for a response? > > Free software people, myself included, have expressed disappointment > regarding the use of code harvested by SWH for HuggingFace=E2=80=99s trai= ning. > Stefano Zacchiroli of SWH responded to these concerns on Mastodon back > in March, as you probably saw. > > One important point is that copyleft code is excluded from the training > dataset; I was able to anecdotally check that for GPL code such as Guix > using their interface (there was a thread on Mastodon but I can=E2=80=99t= find > it): . That > addresses my main concern. > > Remaining concerns include the weak wording of the principles put > forward by SWH in its statement on LLMs: > . > I think this is something worth discussing further with them (it=E2=80=99s > already been brought up notably on Mastodon). It=E2=80=99s not clear to = me > whether this is a task for Guix as a project. I don't think it is a task for Guix specifically, but rather for all users of SWH or interested parties. --=20 Thanks, Maxim