From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id UNZAGwjjYmDnFAEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 10:36:24 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id wOQnFQjjYmARYwAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 08:36:24 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECEC9170A4 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 10:36:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:44268 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lR9rG-0000LS-Qi for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 04:36:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48982) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lR9q6-0000LD-Qa for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 04:35:06 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33600) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lR9q6-0002WH-6W; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 04:35:06 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=52766 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lR9q4-0002KY-U0; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 04:35:06 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: =?utf-8?Q?L=C3=A9o?= Le Bouter Subject: Re: A proposal for better quality in maintenance of packages by reducing scope References: <1b2c22892d9cde9b86ff96cc70cb89ad17fba807.camel@zaclys.net> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 10 Germinal an 229 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 10:35:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1b2c22892d9cde9b86ff96cc70cb89ad17fba807.camel@zaclys.net> (=?utf-8?Q?=22L=C3=A9o?= Le Bouter"'s message of "Tue, 23 Mar 2021 16:00:42 +0100") Message-ID: <87o8f1hweg.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1617093380; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=TDm6K4iuuipkYchl9u9N3Rkheycgqc4Wd0I62YK9W1M=; b=Wkg9IeqX9HO5OsrF5+6T6RXVApWpWam/9jQ/FQ59tNjheJ+ZjKMeE1usanHAJe85553GqO 5Jn9XQKTKr4MbWigzqZ6qYzYCP5+U9BnwThikeNeKfs3hGm8KKhps/UOZm24HvuYZzqQjo NkMOFipUYJiN/p0xOOYCYuawT48bFl6FZesEXyYg/srIDE02JAbSOjIPVEoJ0HGFmKJPKc caDOkCPnVGBVDbN87+wyb4ZhkIJIpW4OxzKyk2oYiePYmcd2CHGX55VHMTg5nGEUDQzg+h oRs9Vf2AqxHvugfTaFDOgnOjuYEmPqiNbvW1kp7AYwNdz1jxrEp1fjSn8R3LBg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1617093380; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=XXtor7Bx/V17598+tuCmZXgKUJDhepwypUgxbep9jfo1RENhqaVhXWkOX5jVjo8dZ/ktwB y0G6Zsv9J8jT6gaxyXg4loyPBeufRrj5mn5fEM4w3ZJ/LodOcsK6MXCgFXmigNR7ItnDRw ezimIyBIwhV6+Su3QYA7VezDRZM+RpJ+Epa0VE38AaFssJ2fmPd9yIupMHcXjBgxmLQDDh pUE4FJAyfKDJGXx9zFbSYaj8GS3DkaddG9egJDZq3z7Z2S2T9nrSUx2HPtNbKPivdg3qoM e7ohxG3yiryb/ElH1DCAH9rGR5ZJ0XgNPYCwCBxuTqpeF/KH7hFX1zLYSlj/8A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.92 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: ECEC9170A4 X-Spam-Score: -2.92 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 8hbmvEDkk0AK Hi L=C3=A9o, L=C3=A9o Le Bouter skribis: > I would like to propose that we reduce the scope of the maintenance we > do in GNU Guix and establish a list of packages that we more or less > commit to maintaining because this is something that we can do and is > attainable, for example, we could remove desktop environments that we > can't maintain to good standards realistically and focus our efforts on > upstreams that don't go against our way of doing things, that are > cooperative, that provide good build systems we can rely on for our > purposes, etc. > > I propose we also add some requirements before packages can go into > such a maintained state, like a working and reliable updater/refresher > with notifications directed to some mailing list when that one finds a > new release, a reduced amount of downstream patches and a cooperative > upstream with who we preferably have some point of contact to solve > issues or gather more insider knowledge about the software if we need, > a working and reliable CVE linter with proper cpe-name/vendor and > notifications going to a mailing list we all subscribe to, etc.. > probably lots of other things are relevant but you see the idea. > > It should also be possible to filter out packages that are not declared > to be in this maintained state, for example, in the GNU Guix System > configuration. I think most would agree with the general ideas. What=E2=80=99s more complicated is the implementation. What=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cgood standards= =E2=80=9D? What=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Crealistically=E2=80=9D? How do we tell whether =E2=80=9Cupstream = is cooperative=E2=80=9D? Whether a package is =E2=80=9Cmaintained=E2=80=9D? However, concrete actions we can take is identify shortcomings of existing tools (I=E2=80=99m glad you reported a bunch of =E2=80=98guix refr= esh=E2=80=99 failures!) and missing tools (a tool that would automatically refresh/build and push patches to a branch would be great), and work on them incrementally. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.