From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: znavko@disroot.org Subject: Check whether package has substitution Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 16:22:01 +0000 Message-ID: <0430840ba39308ca71d81905fa35725a@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--=_RainLoop_241_499103918.1557764521" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33954) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQDiI-0001nE-RN for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 12:22:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQDiH-0002KV-N5 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 12:22:06 -0400 Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([178.21.23.139]:52062) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQDiH-0002Ir-6a for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 12:22:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by disroot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6311310D1 for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 18:22:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O3zicZMMvUxE for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 18:22:01 +0200 (CEST) List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: guix-devel ----=_RainLoop_241_499103918.1557764521 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! Users that have experience to install packages from binaries may h= ave troubles waiting compilation process.=0AI want to propose some things= that can appreciably improve Guix users experience.=0A=0AUsers do not wa= nt to wait the compilation process. This may happen on installation and u= pdate.=0AGuix may solve this problem giving to the user next possibilitie= s:=0A=0A1) check if there is substitution of some package you want to ins= tall for your system state (and environment)=0A2) check what packages wil= l have to compile if you will update your system=0A=0AI think this is not= that academic way Guix is intended for. But such a feature will improve = user experience riding him from long time compilation.=0A=0AGuix also may= solve the problem of absent substitutions the next way.=0AGuix developer= s can create user interface for sending requests to default substitution = server to compile those packages users want right now.=0AAs I know, hydra= compiles all the packages for all the systems without priorities.=0ASo u= sers can address to hydra their requests to compile some packages for the= ir system type (and environment). So hydra will stop its usual way of thi= ngs (that actually has the lowest priority) and start to compile packages= on user's behalf.=0AThis way user can send a request, wait for 30-120 mi= nutes and install it or update to having substitution built on hydra.=0A= =0AReading some discussions about OS, I can say this is the first user wa= nt to have, saying: 'Computing freedom is imposed by Guix, but that ugly = compilation process is what does not give me to start using it'.=0A=0APle= ase, could you try to satisfy new users by speed up packages installation= ? ----=_RainLoop_241_499103918.1557764521 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
H= ello! Users that have experience to install packages from binaries may ha= ve troubles waiting compilation process.
I want to propose some things= that can appreciably improve Guix users experience.
=
Users do not want to wait the compilation process. This may happen on= installation and update.
Guix may solve this problem giving to the us= er next possibilities:

1) check if there is substitution of some p= ackage you want to install for your system state (and environment)
2) = check what packages will have to compile if you will update your system
I think this is not that academic way Guix is intended for. But suc= h a feature will improve user experience riding him from long time compil= ation.

Guix also may solve the problem of absent substitutions the= next way.
Guix developers can create user interface for sending reque= sts to default substitution server to compile those packages users want r= ight now.
As I know, hydra compiles all the packages for all the syste= ms without priorities.
So users can address to hydra their requests to= compile some packages for their system type (and environment). So hydra = will stop its usual way of things (that actually has the lowest priority)= and start to compile packages on user's behalf.
This way user can sen= d a request, wait for 30-120 minutes and install it or update to having s= ubstitution built on hydra.

Reading some discussions about OS, I c= an say this is the first user want to have, saying: 'Computing freedom is= imposed by Guix, but that ugly compilation process is what does not give= me to start using it'.

Please, could you t= ry to satisfy new users by speed up packages installation?
----=_RainLoop_241_499103918.1557764521-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Subject: Re: Check whether package has substitution Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 18:30:06 +0200 Message-ID: <87o9461fnm.fsf@nckx> References: <0430840ba39308ca71d81905fa35725a@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35114) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQDqD-0003ap-F5 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 12:30:18 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQDqB-0007x3-Uz for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 12:30:17 -0400 Received: from tobias.gr ([2001:470:7405::1]:56874) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQDqA-0007ru-0Z for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 12:30:15 -0400 Received: by tobias.gr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id a8d515b2 for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 16:30:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by submission.tobias.gr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id cb5f24a1 (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO) for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 16:30:07 +0000 (UTC) In-reply-to: <0430840ba39308ca71d81905fa35725a@disroot.org> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: guix-devel@gnu.org --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Znavko, This doesn't address all points in your e-mail, but some days ago=20 I too was suprised by the fact that =E2=80=98guix weather PACKAGE-SPEC=E2= =80=99=20 didn't just do what I expected. I'll clean up my patch to do so (mainly testing that it actually=20 works for other use cases than my=E2=80=A6 two :-) and send it in. Kind regards, T G-R --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQT12iAyS4c9C3o4dnINsP+IT1VteQUCXNmbjgAKCRANsP+IT1Vt edn7AP94aZDk7cdrVn3VCCP7wxmM7EwHE3ITUCAM2kIEkdxuUgEAsmp+S9KF44gi 7YRio6twXYsw+Hpkdrzd5u68LFZggg4= =P8QH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: =?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=A1bor_Boskovits?= Subject: Re: Check whether package has substitution Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 18:38:16 +0200 Message-ID: References: <0430840ba39308ca71d81905fa35725a@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c10ef40588c78bbb" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36705) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQDyB-0005Hh-KF for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 12:38:32 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQDyA-0005WV-Fn for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 12:38:31 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-x532.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::532]:37526) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQDyA-0005V0-64 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 12:38:30 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-x532.google.com with SMTP id w37so18489178edw.4 for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 09:38:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0430840ba39308ca71d81905fa35725a@disroot.org> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: znavko@disroot.org Cc: guix-devel --000000000000c10ef40588c78bbb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! ezt =C3=ADrta (id=C5=91pont: 2019. m=C3=A1j. 13., H, 1= 8:22): > Hello! Users that have experience to install packages from binaries may > have troubles waiting compilation process. > I want to propose some things that can appreciably *improve Guix users > experience*. > > Users do not want to wait the compilation process. This may happen on > installation and update. > Guix may solve this problem giving to the user next possibilities: > > 1) check if there is substitution of some package you want to install for > your system state (and environment) > 2) check what packages will have to compile if you will update your syste= m > > For profiles which have a manifest, you can guix weather the manifest. I believe someone more knowledgable than me can answer if that could be extended easily for the 'system reconfigure' case. > I think this is not that academic way Guix is intended for. But such a > feature will improve user experience riding him from long time compilatio= n. > > Guix also may solve the problem of absent substitutions the next way. > Guix developers can create user interface for sending requests to default > substitution server to compile those packages users want right now. > As I know, hydra compiles all the packages for all the systems without > priorities. > So users can address to hydra their requests to compile some packages for > their system type (and environment). So hydra will stop its usual way of > things (that actually has the lowest priority) and start to compile > packages on user's behalf. > This way user can send a request, wait for 30-120 minutes and install it > or update to having substitution built on hydra. > > Reading some discussions about OS, I can say this is the first user want > to have, saying: 'Computing freedom is imposed by Guix, but that ugly > compilation process is what does not give me to start using it'. > > Please, could you try to satisfy new users by speed up packages > installation? > Best regards, g_bor --000000000000c10ef40588c78bbb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello!

<znavko@disroot.org> ezt =C3=ADrta (id=C5=91pont: 2019. m= =C3=A1j. 13., H, 18:22):
Hello! Users that have experience to install packages from binaries = may have troubles waiting compilation process.
I want to propose some th= ings that can appreciably improve Guix users experience.

User= s do not want to wait the compilation process. This may happen on installat= ion and update.
Guix may solve this problem giving to the user next poss= ibilities:

1) check if there is substitution of some package you wan= t to install for your system state (and environment)
2) check what packa= ges will have to compile if you will update your system

=

For profiles which have a manifest, you ca= n guix weather the manifest. I believe someone more knowledgable than me ca= n
answer if that could be extended easily for the 'system rec= onfigure' case.
=C2=A0
I think this is not that academic way Guix is intended for. But s= uch a feature will improve user experience riding him from long time compil= ation.

Guix also may solve the problem of absent substitutions the n= ext way.
Guix developers can create user interface for sending requests = to default substitution server to compile those packages users want right n= ow.
As I know, hydra compiles all the packages for all the systems witho= ut priorities.
So users can address to hydra their requests to compile s= ome packages for their system type (and environment). So hydra will stop it= s usual way of things (that actually has the lowest priority) and start to = compile packages on user's behalf.
This way user can send a request,= wait for 30-120 minutes and install it or update to having substitution bu= ilt on hydra.

Reading some discussions about OS, I can say this is t= he first user want to have, saying: 'Computing freedom is imposed by Gu= ix, but that ugly compilation process is what does not give me to start usi= ng it'.

Please, could you try to satisfy new users= by speed up packages installation?

=
Best regards,
g_bor

--000000000000c10ef40588c78bbb-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: sirgazil Subject: Re: Check whether package has substitution Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 13:17:15 -0500 Message-ID: <16ab269be72.101cb345311255.5411801321379070085@zoho.com> References: <0430840ba39308ca71d81905fa35725a@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33392) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQGES-0000kH-6r for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 15:03:29 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQGEQ-0005x2-UU for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 15:03:28 -0400 Received: from sender-pp-092.zoho.com ([135.84.80.237]:25470) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQGEQ-0005wB-Jj for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 15:03:26 -0400 In-Reply-To: <0430840ba39308ca71d81905fa35725a@disroot.org> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: znavko Cc: guix-devel Hi znavko, ---- On Mon, 13 May 2019 11:22:01 -0500 wrote ---- > Hello! Users that have experience to install packages from binaries may have troubles waiting compilation process. > I want to propose some things that can appreciably improve Guix users experience. > > Users do not want to wait the compilation process. This may happen on installation and update. > Guix may solve this problem giving to the user next possibilities: > > 1) check if there is substitution of some package you want to install for your system state (and environment) > 2) check what packages will have to compile if you will update your system > > I think this is not that academic way Guix is intended for. But such a feature will improve user experience riding him from long time compilation. > > Guix also may solve the problem of absent substitutions the next way. > Guix developers can create user interface for sending requests to default substitution server to compile those packages users want right now. > As I know, hydra compiles all the packages for all the systems without priorities. > So users can address to hydra their requests to compile some packages for their system type (and environment). So hydra will stop its usual way of things (that actually has the lowest priority) and start to compile packages on user's behalf. > This way user can send a request, wait for 30-120 minutes and install it or update to having substitution built on hydra. > > Reading some discussions about OS, I can say this is the first user want to have, saying: 'Computing freedom is imposed by Guix, but that ugly compilation process is what does not give me to start using it'. > > Please, could you try to satisfy new users by speed up packages installation? I've had similar thoughts. I usually run commands with the "--dry-run" option to avoid starting to build expensive packages (I have one computer; I depend on substitute servers to build those expensive packages for me). I was thinking that maybe the request to the substitute servers to build a given package should be done implicitly, instead of requiring the user to run some Guix command specific to that purpose. For example, and taking into account what znavko says, I'd like something like this: ########## $ guix package -m manifest.scm would install new manifest from 'aggregate-manifest.scm' with 45 entries substitute: updating substitutes from 'https://ci.guix.gnu.org'... 100.0% The following derivations would be built: /gnu/store/...-abc.drv /gnu/store/...-dfg.drv 149.1 MB would be downloaded: /gnu/store/...-mno-3.1.0 /gnu/store/...-xyz-0.14.2 The following profile hooks would be built: /gnu/store/...-manual-database.drv /gnu/store/...-xdg-mime-database.drv Do you want to proceed? If "Yes", your machine will have to build some derivations locally. Depending on your machine, this process can take a lot of time. If "No", a request will be sent to https://ci.guix.gnu.org to build the derivations for you; then, you can try again later to see if the substitutes are available for download. (Yes/No) ########## And the list of derivations that need to be built could be yellow or something. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: Check whether package has substitution Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 09:53:43 +0200 Message-ID: <87mujp320o.fsf@gnu.org> References: <0430840ba39308ca71d81905fa35725a@disroot.org> <16ab269be72.101cb345311255.5411801321379070085@zoho.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49077) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQSFu-0000LB-8h for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 14 May 2019 03:53:49 -0400 In-Reply-To: <16ab269be72.101cb345311255.5411801321379070085@zoho.com> (sirgazil@zoho.com's message of "Mon, 13 May 2019 13:17:15 -0500") List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: sirgazil Cc: guix-devel Hi, sirgazil skribis: > $ guix package -m manifest.scm=20 > would install new manifest from 'aggregate-manifest.scm' with 45 entries > substitute: updating substitutes from 'https://ci.guix.gnu.org'... 100.0% > The following derivations would be built: > /gnu/store/...-abc.drv > /gnu/store/...-dfg.drv > 149.1 MB would be downloaded: > /gnu/store/...-mno-3.1.0 > /gnu/store/...-xyz-0.14.2 > The following profile hooks would be built: > /gnu/store/...-manual-database.drv > /gnu/store/...-xdg-mime-database.drv > > Do you want to proceed? If "Yes", your machine will have to build some de= rivations > locally. Depending on your machine, this process can take a lot of time. = If "No", a=20 > request will be sent to https://ci.guix.gnu.org to build the derivations = for you; then, > you can try again later to see if the substitutes are available for downl= oad. (Yes/No) I think =E2=80=98guix package=E2=80=99 should remain non-interactive, at le= ast by default. Ludo=E2=80=99.