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charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32c; envelope-from=zimon.toutoune@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Spam-Score: -0.80 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B21916FDBF X-Migadu-Scanner: mx10.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.80 X-TUID: dsEnfJiV7Vsr Hi all, For the record, the Software Heritage initiative is supportive of the Guix project since years. It means that members of Guix community have or had interactions with Software Heritage (SWH) teams since years. For example, the blog post =E2=80=9CConnecting reproducible deployment to a long-term source code arch= ive=E2=80=9D [1] published in 2019. And more recently, the scientific communication =E2=80=9CSource Code Archiving to the Rescue of Reproducible Deployment=E2= =80=9D [2]. Almost 6 years of friendly interactions and shared values. Could we avoid to express definitive opinions based on partial considerations about multi-dimensional topics? Since years, several members of Guix community are helped in one way or the other by SWH team members in improving free software ecosystem. Well, I speak for myself: I have been invited to several events organized by SWH and it=E2=80=99s up to you to trust me when I say: SWH team works very hard to embrace all the diversity of FOSS communities. For example, I recently attended to a talk organized by SWH about Commons; that talk had been a very good food for thought and maybe it could feed our current discussion about governance/sociocracy via comments here or there I could commit, I do not know, maybe. Well, I am very grateful for the opportunity to interact with SWH teams. For the record, SWH provided various supports for the organization of 10 Years of Guix, back in 2022. Please remember that SWH team members were there and some stayed all the three days; probably because we are a nice community? All the video stream and good videos of the 10 Years of Guix event you probably watched or maybe watch again is because the tireless work of multi-hats person (Debian Developer, Debian Video Team, =E2=80=A6 a= nd working at SWH) helped by Guix community members. Please check the Copyright header for the subcommand =E2=80=9Cguix locate= =E2=80=9D. Yes, it had been partly written by one SWH team member because, yes they run Guix. Yes, their day-job is at SWH and they are also part of our Guix community by contributing to Guix source code. Now, you take it as it is: I am sad by what people are concluding! Yes I understand why people are angry. Yes discussions must happen. However, I was expecting more benefit of the doubt considering history and track record. Hum, even, maybe, I am asking myself if Guix community is indeed nice or if this time the community is just harsh and unfair. Do we forget the track record and the common history? Then, for what my opinion is worth, fighting against SWH while thinking it=E2=80=99s fighting against LLM/AI is the wrong fight. Because 1. we are= all in the team. And 2. because SWH could be a facilitator for helping in some regulations, maybe, I do not know. Somehow, I agree with Ekaitz. You take it as it is: I was expecting more humility by Guix community members. Do you really think that a collective of people involved in various FOSS communities with different roles, dedicating their free time to free software or open source movements, do you think they are the bad actors here? My humility tells me, as I expressed several times, nothing is ignored. Yes I also got the point about the lack of transparency. As I said above, FWIW, I am in touch with SWH team. Well, I do not have special information from SWH and I trust them to have listened or are still listening various communities. So my understanding is: work is in progress=E2=80=A6 Somehow, wait and see. Yes I know we cannot wait forever. Again, do we forget the track record and the common history? Do we consider that a multi-layers topic involving legal or ethics questions is straightforward to articulate? My humility tells me to wait to have clear and better understanding about SWH motivations, their rationale, the measures and counter-measures they maybe have in mind. Be patient and tolerant as I am with my friends. Long enough email and thread. That=E2=80=99s all from me! :-) My last message. Not because I am bored but because one week of holidays is starting now for me. ;-) 1: https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2019/connecting-reproducible-deployment-to-= a-long-term-source-code-archive/ 2: https://hal.science/hal-04586520v1 Cheers, simon