From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id AKhVApctu2K7IQAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 18:34:31 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id 0CxcAZctu2JYRgAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 18:34:31 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2A053EE7 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 18:34:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:58356 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o6EAX-00010J-Rx for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 12:34:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42350) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o6EA0-0000xN-J4 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 12:33:56 -0400 Received: from cascadia.aikidev.net ([173.255.214.101]:50448) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o6E9y-0000xh-PB for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 12:33:56 -0400 Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:20]) (Authenticated sender: vagrant@aikidev.net) by cascadia.aikidev.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ED9091ABFE; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 09:33:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=reproducible-builds.org; s=1.vagrant; t=1656434033; bh=tiI2AjfHY6F79ipmeLwvSdGIBUVJhWe1ZUA5dMMdApk=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=HkRA1WZkrSgftAwDePKWjJybmwUMJ4mkBXB3fIp5uCiwR7unTmZGqO9emsdWis2C0 1SZPGwkdSmrZ0HPxi1OMEqvOZEt2W5cFMdZ1GcO9hySJO8nMKNcvz+IpYq72m8yyoS 3jhYiyuEtsyxfyLw1Q7bUbAgEj3ySfA9O+DVKUpvQoZ66QnfzBLWX9tcccBNsAB3g/ u9DjxuNR88Rj23pNOt9/9oY3DOw4j6DBTAmjcQYbjzCXi9PEnE3vT3Cum7E1rgf0va 0cMwcWjL6/7y8N4lCqONBJsjZiT2jrpU3V08KC/wwJcvs/54PdB0CjeD8naKJ70Le3 UVq3CCY9u0D3Q== From: Vagrant Cascadian To: =?utf-8?Q?G=C3=A1bor?= Boskovits , Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Cc: Guix Devel , Efraim Flashner , Julien Lepiller , Felix Lechner Subject: Re: maradns reproducibility fixes and the merits of picking a random number In-Reply-To: References: <87pmjlfdjl.fsf@contorta> <310AD876-916E-4020-A87E-5609E8166432@lepiller.eu> <87a6amgak1.fsf@contorta> <87r13grv6a.fsf@contorta> <87leth7ev6.fsf@contorta> <4BD0EAF3-DFA2-47B0-AFA0-AEAA2393F2A5@tobias.gr> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 09:33:48 -0700 Message-ID: <87letg21eb.fsf@contorta> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: none client-ip=173.255.214.101; envelope-from=vagrant@reproducible-builds.org; helo=cascadia.aikidev.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1656434070; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=wep/UnKBbOylraO2c/GiJj55yjTI5wo0XI5QheG6zmk=; b=oOcrQlL9IWOjLm9115flSZkwSvOnzIL5gOJjIcAX60sr5UHqPFc2edWLvmhkQt0WxAq7Mv zawf/fw1ECWCvoFAdJHJ37eeiNxekU5lTuhWHuWYLulqAItDlNMkn5X4jCgjvFOlMnP7Fp pAVbjO5Yu8xhlkDlnAXkLZ7TmEQP7an758B3Dyo1+DRrjy9hDRKU4dgVgPlLop7lfcs2Tf pVFoZghY1j5OqolsLUd3g+R1+klicGPhtzdiOoBUD/tjJcCh/S4o1nmhjZ+eBKSS0Qhfkx Ri+bNVRbqXytEsrNsKA18rRSlDzClR/JPJUI/75uN0iYS1XHmVMU7H/7Iys92w== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1656434070; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Dn029dbVXxaNGGmMeclODsQrQk7c0uu3wjosnquqnGESEByMi1CuXfsbGeQVDZ42Osl4QS VpC0YO81U9IPD+5LOSFGBFeuRxUP1PnQ/i0+5lnoUoLCDPp0QGzNagWtepyXzE+Yq13imG 3RtGO9UqUGcsCNkJLeHReAA1Y07EduALokKzK2D3yNmljrGJcYJf2b1QmYec4/cnWaierQ qYbBD5yPx1UhlGPeq1X0SYPu8m1YfYce3vbi4vovAd9gN0d4IkwylCTGVgW52D4f6J+8oe i4aMv9g3F0HW4VIfytLyp8BOApkSew4ef2hIx5HtOmEnVEXqxNwl2CFUWwMNgw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=reproducible-builds.org header.s=1.vagrant header.b=HkRA1WZk; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.55 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=reproducible-builds.org header.s=1.vagrant header.b=HkRA1WZk; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C2A053EE7 X-Spam-Score: -3.55 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: 0Dc1ew8ESinf --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2022-06-28, G=C3=A1bor Boskovits wrote: > Tobias Geerinckx-Rice ezt =C3=ADrta (id=C5=91pont: 2022. j= =C3=BAn. 28., K > 18:07): >> Vagrant said: >> > It is expensive to generate the random prime on some hardware, so doing >> > so at runtime might not be feasible in some cases... >> >> But in the same reply you're paraphrasing, upstream also says: >> >> > In 2010, I updated that homegrown hash compression >> > algorithm to also add a random number when compressing >> > the input, and calculating another 32-bit random number >> > when Deadwood starts. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> and >> >> > I believe the hash compression algorithm is protected from hash >> > bucket collision attacks, even if Deadwood is patched to make >> > MUL_CONSTANT a constant number, since the add constant >> > remains random. >> >> so their 'too computationally expensive' does not make sense to me. Do >> they bail out if generating the truly random part 'takes too long'? Sur= ely >> not. >> >> Neither does the 'ah, but your urandom might be broken' argument for >> silently substituting a still less random number. Yeah, the response was a bit confusing to me, at least. :) >> I don't think this alone justifies the scheme, or disabling substitutes. I am at a loss as to what to do then ... nothing and just have it be unreproducible? embed a specific random number? come up with better upstreamable patches? > I tend to agree. > Afaics this can be solved in a workaround way. I don't think this random > number is picked up by the build in any way. What do you mean? The whole reason I discovered this issue is that it embeds a random number in the build, making it not build reproducibly... > Upstream could just provide it as an optional config value. That would > be better in every respect. Then they could just give a build flag to > move to the new model. That sounds reasonable to me... > Do you think such a proposal would be accepted upstream? I hope something better would be accepted upstream, but I don't myself use maradns, and have a grand total of precisely one interaction with maradns upstream so far... :) live well, vagrant --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQRlgHNhO/zFx+LkXUXcUY/If5cWqgUCYrstbQAKCRDcUY/If5cW qgVkAP4pqlWvIBIcYBLTXKEuSxMEgAWEwEx95gYBH3vD1HR3ygEAoVhg2fH4sYkG 0G25B3EoHPT0BP2RSJoX3aoj0KxIFQ0= =YbGd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--