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charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D9ED98325A X-Rspamd-Server: rspamd-worker-8404 X-NC-CID: ISOlc7GqOW0E3f7+UOBGqVZdwV3KfjNiLaiH6CfX6YzhyDAjr/EtBxPz Received-SPF: pass client-ip=188.68.63.166; envelope-from=pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de; helo=relay.yourmailgateway.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Scanner: mx12.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.68 X-Spam-Score: -7.68 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B2DCD64A19 X-TUID: UtabTXSw5kqM Hi Matt. I would almost want to push your changes, but we still disagree on some wordings. Also, Matt writes: > I realigned the subject. It was previously changed to "doc: Removing > much of Binary Installation" which is misleading. The topic is how to > clarify installation based on reported confusion, not about removing > text. The reported confusion was on the use of '~root'. Explicit > mention of '~root' is only necessary when the manual details how > 'guix-install.sh' works. Since 'guix-install.sh' is the recommended > method of installation, such level of detail is unnecessary, > inappropriate, and impractical. The suggested changes address the > issue, only incidentally, by removing text. Yes, however the removal means that we should move the sections * 2.2 Requirements * 2.3 Running the Test Suite to the Contributing manual in doc/contributing.texi. WDYT? You said, it could be a separate discussion, but in my opinion it would be part of the same patch. > +@cindex foreign distro > +@cindex Guix System =E2=80=9C@cindex Guix System=E2=80=9D is inappropriate, because instruction= s on Guix System are not here. > +You can install the Guix package management tool on top of an existing > +GNU/Linux or GNU/Hurd system@footnote{Currently only the Linux-libre > +kernel is fully supported. [=E2=80=A6] No. First of all, using guix-install.sh as per your instructions, one installs the Guix distribution *and* package management tool. Either say =E2=80=9CYou can install the Guix package management tool and distribut= ion=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CYou can install Guix=E2=80=9D. Next, I believe Guix cannot currently be built on existing GNU/Hurd systems, because guile-fibers does not work. I do not really know enough, but I would not mention Hurd support. Additionally =E2=80=9Conly t= he Linux-libre kernel=E2=80=9D is incorrect, because running Guix on non-libre Linux is fully supported. Running Guix System there is not supported (by us). >> You suggested in your mail: >> >> Matt matt@excalamus.com> writes: >> > Readers interested in those details may read the code for 'guix-instal= l.sh'. >> >> Could you add this suggestion to your diff? > > I don't see that as relevant to the reader. The ability to read the > source is implicit in it being provided, which it is. Yes, you are right. > The suggested changes remove superfluous commentary on the recommended > binary installation process which create confusion. =E2=80=9Cremove superfluous commentary=E2=80=9D could be part of a commit m= essage for your changes, if you agree. > What do you think is lost that isn't captured by the following bulleted l= ist? > > +The script guides you through the following: > +@itemize > +@item Download and extract the binary tarball > +@item Set up the build daemon > +@item Make the =E2=80=98guix=E2=80=99 command available to non-root users > +@item Configure substitute servers > +@end itemize The list is fine. >> Therefore, the sentence would have to be removed: =E2=80=9CThe following >> sections describe two methods of installation, binary installation >> and building from source.=E2=80=9D > > I've removed that sentence for a different reason. I also revised the > sentence, "This is often quicker than installing from source, which is > described in the next sections", to simply, "described later". > > The reason is that Chapter 2 doesn't currently explain building or > installing from source. Building and installing from source is > currently covered much later in Section 22.1. Whether or not the > Installation section should cover building from source is a separate > issue and shouldn't be part of this discussion. This could be: described later (@pxref{Building from Git}). >> Matt matt@excalamus.com> writes: >> > - Add commas in appropriate places; after "For...Ubuntu-based >> > systems", "Likewise", and the 'or' within the list of substitutes >> >> I=E2=80=99m not a native speaker, but I believe the commas are not >> necessary. There particularly does not need to be an Oxford comma >> before =E2=80=98or=E2=80=99. There could be, but there is no reason to = change it. > > Ah, the One True Brace Style of natural language :) > > I think there's already enough controversy in this thread. I've changed = it back :) :D However, please also do not change: > -Likewise on openSUSE: > +Likewise, on openSUSE: >> Similarly, IMO the nuances are more appropriate in the old wording >> =E2=80=9CFor Debian or a derivative such as Ubuntu,=E2=80=9D rather than= your change >> =E2=80=9CFor Debian and Ubuntu-based systems=E2=80=9D. > > The current wording is, "If you're running Debian or a derivative such > as Ubuntu..." None of the suggested changes include the wording you > give. > > What are the nuances? If they matter, we should probably make them expli= cit. The nuance is that Ubuntu is a derivative of Debian. It can be bootstrapped with Debian=E2=80=99s dpkg, although I did not follow a recent e-mail thread on how to do this from a Guix-provided dpkg. > +@quotation Note > +By default, binary installations of Guix build @emph{everything} from > +source. This makes each installation and upgrade very expensive. > +@xref{On Trusting Binaries} for a discussion of why this is the default. > [=E2=80=A6] > - > -@quotation Note > -If you do not enable substitutes, Guix will end up building > -@emph{everything} from source on your machine, making each installation > -and upgrade very expensive. @xref{On Trusting Binaries}, for a > -discussion of reasons why one might want do disable substitutes. > @end quotation Better not change the wording? I believe enabling substitutes is not the default. IMHO The discussion about whether Upgrading Guix should recommend to edit the systemd service of the Debian guix package is for a separate second patch. Regards, Florian