From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id qF0MDFPDsl4xZAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 06 May 2020 14:01:55 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id YIhPO17Dsl6EIAAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 06 May 2020 14:02:06 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [IPv6:2001:470:142::17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF4D6940F94 for ; Wed, 6 May 2020 14:02:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:60994 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWKcf-0006VQ-Cs for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 10:02:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52420) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWKcX-0006VI-LL for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 10:01:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55554) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWKcW-0003Qr-V7; Wed, 06 May 2020 10:01:56 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=60872 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jWKcV-0005Zb-Vt; Wed, 06 May 2020 10:01:56 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Danny Milosavljevic Subject: Re: branch master updated: gnu: Add musl-cross. References: <20200502155209.18737.35721@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <87ftcgzuow.fsf@gnu.org> <20200503221719.06f58042@scratchpost.org> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 18 =?utf-8?Q?Flor=C3=A9al?= an 228 de la =?utf-8?Q?R?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Wed, 06 May 2020 16:01:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20200503221719.06f58042@scratchpost.org> (Danny Milosavljevic's message of "Sun, 3 May 2020 22:17:19 +0200") Message-ID: <87imh9i2lp.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: -1.01 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 2001:470:142::17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [-1.01 / 13.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.49630237377789]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:470:142::/48:c]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.12), country: US(-0.00), ip: 2001:470:142::17(-0.50)]; DWL_DNSWL_FAIL(0.00)[2001:470:142::17:server fail]; MX_GOOD(-0.50)[cached: eggs.gnu.org]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:2001:470:142::/48, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[ludo@gnu.org,guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; URIBL_BLOCKED(0.00)[gnu.org:email,scratchpost.org:email]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gnu.org]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; DNSWL_BLOCKED(0.00)[2001:470:142::17:from]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: bYdC22+9gIn8 Hi, Danny Milosavljevic skribis: > On Sun, 03 May 2020 21:26:23 +0200 > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: > >> I understand cross-base.scm is becoming messy and we would need an >> abstraction to facilitate its use. Still, to me it sounds like a better >> option over big monolithic packages. >>=20 >> WDYT? > > In general I'm all for using our cross toolchain mechanism. > > However, this is the toolchain used by heads[1]--and they have reproducib= le > builds. > > The use case is to be able to build heads in Guix without modification. > > Their attestation of secure boot actually verifies (and asks the user and > documents the correct hashes in their README) whether the output hashes a= re > correct--so the toolchain doesn't need to be just similar, it needs to ma= ke > exactly the same executables. OK, I see the practical need. If we take a step back, I think that Heads would be stronger by using Guix all the way down: it=E2=80=99d benefit from not just reproducible buil= ds, but also provenance tracking and a reduced set of bootstrap binaries. In this grand scheme of things, the secure boot attestation of binaries =E2=80=9Cbuilt their way=E2=80=9D should be compared with the benefits of h= aving binaries =E2=80=9Cbuilt our way=E2=80=9D. There are also practical issues: building a whole toolchain as part of this one package is expensive for our build farm and for users of said package. > Also, they are using musl instead of glibc. I don't think we have a musl= -gcc > yet and I've never done a musl gcc before. > Could be easy, could be hard--who knows. I think it should be simpler than the MinGW or even GNU/Hurd cross-toolchains that we have. :-) > That said, I'm all for it. > > However, I need heads for work--and one way or another it has to actually > build the official version :) Yup, makes sense! Let=E2=80=99s just try and see how Heads and Guix can build upon each other eventually. Ludo=E2=80=99.