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From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net>
To: David Craven <david@craven.ch>
Cc: guix-devel <guix-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Leaving the guix project
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 09:38:56 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87h93ua5sv.fsf@elephly.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAL1_imnBcA0pNEQ8BhN++Cr=fP8Wp0PGfX70E8LmQz-Hw66g9A@mail.gmail.com>


Hi David,

> I am very grateful for all the things I could learn during my time
> here and all the awesome work that you guys put in.

…and we are grateful for your many contributions!

It’s probably obvious that you and I disagree on some of the points
you’ve made, but for the sake of onlookers I’d like to comment on a few
of the points you’ve made in your email.  I’m not trying to change your
mind; instead I’d like to offer a different perspective.

> But I wish to leave the guix project and that my savannah account be
> removed. This is not a decision I make lightly. The reason why I
> decided it was time to move on is because I do not wish to be part of
> GNU or the FSF.
[…]
> I also believe that the gnu project has moved away from those core
> values and focuses instead on petitioning websites and hardware
> manufacturers to release work they have invested a lot of money in
> developing, often in very pushy and uncivil ways. Even if they
> succeed, I do not really care about this expensive, rushed to market
> and badly engineered code.

To avoid misunderstandings: GNU is separate from the FSF, but they stand
for two branches of the free software movement.  GNU is representative
of the part that is mostly fun: writing new freedom-respecting software,
exploring new ideas to give users more power (see the Hurd and Guix
projects for examples), a volunteer effort to develop a complete
freedom-respecting operating system (a shifting goal).

The FSF and its sibling organisations focus on policy and advocacy,
areas that are often avoided by people who just want to write code.  The
issue of free software is closely tied to ideas relating to the
development of society itself, so it involves different powerful actors
— this includes suppliers of hardware as well as policy makers.
Lobbying and advocacy are strategies, not goals in themselves.

Likewise, Copyleft as implemented in various licenses such as the GPL is
not the goal, but it is a *strategy* towards that goal.  Few people
(myself included) get excited about legal language, but Copyleft is a
great legal hack that tries to ensure that the other branch of the
movement can continue to write software that remains free.

I do not share your experience about how this is done (“often in very
pushy and uncivil ways”); in my experience the FSFE has done excellent
work to make the issue of free software visible where it matters.
(Since I’m based in Europe I haven’t directly seen or as closely
followed much of what the FSF does.)

I’m convinced that we need both branches of the movement in order to get
closer to the goal of having a reasonable *chance* to get our computing
done without the use of proprietary software.

--
Ricardo

GPG: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6  2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC
https://elephly.net

  parent reply	other threads:[~2017-02-16  8:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 44+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-02-16  0:14 Leaving the guix project David Craven
2017-02-16  1:40 ` Leo Famulari
2017-02-16  8:24 ` Alex Kost
2017-02-16  8:38 ` Ricardo Wurmus [this message]
2017-02-16  8:40 ` Hartmut Goebel
2017-02-16 11:35 ` Alex Vong
2017-02-16 13:17 ` Andy Wingo
2017-02-16 13:20   ` Andy Wingo
2017-02-17 12:56   ` David Craven
2017-02-17 13:48     ` Adonay Felipe Nogueira
2017-02-17 14:05     ` John Darrington
2017-02-17 16:37     ` Ricardo Wurmus
2017-02-17 23:47       ` David Craven
2017-02-18  0:25         ` David Craven
2017-02-18 13:02           ` Ricardo Wurmus
2017-02-19 11:13             ` David Craven
2017-02-18 12:24         ` Ricardo Wurmus
2017-02-19 18:30     ` Alex Kost
2017-02-20  8:59       ` Tomas Cech
2017-02-20 13:25         ` John Darrington
2017-02-20 22:08           ` ng0
2017-02-21  1:51           ` Mike Gerwitz
2017-02-21 13:13             ` David Craven
2017-02-22  4:52               ` Mike Gerwitz
2017-02-22 13:54                 ` David Craven
2017-02-22 13:58                   ` John Darrington
2017-02-22 14:06                     ` David Craven
2017-02-22 14:14                       ` David Craven
2017-02-22 14:44                         ` Clément Lassieur
     [not found]                           ` <CAL1_imn=D3oEYgUBO4r2dao+a0pypXdwLNxGjPDpRbgOvHj39w@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                             ` <CAL1_immw5JQWC1n08SNS+d6-MnL9ZZfe1EmoSMUJuBk0ucsutg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                               ` <CAL1_im=Ffa+k6poKUjygFpUFenbWsQXc-swCyfMErWyE-Yq9pw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                 ` <CAL1_im=3ib4HD2SD0Vg8EiLxnuNrOP2LcYLsyZTa-TuOLFw6WA@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                   ` <CAL1_im=K96Prp0bQxyqwQ1RkqzYGk1ZKm=B8tPEQG9Fr8sNPLA@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                     ` <CAL1_imnRiwOKv6LrviRmRwpS8NbFC7EFrzx5U5XnukC6OUewFw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                       ` <CAL1_imkWXa_rm=MLusHcF60hrFACD-R8f4P7pKLgt9Vg_PKxqQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                         ` <CAL1_im=bVB=LhojoTdfE4YNBUD05ykeZb+uSqjcG=59hV3=0fg@mail.gmail.com>
2017-02-22 15:00                                           ` David Craven
2017-02-22 15:30                                             ` Pjotr Prins
2017-02-22 14:30                       ` Clément Lassieur
2017-02-22 15:42                       ` Leo Famulari
2017-02-22 15:58                         ` Mathieu Lirzin
2017-02-22 17:14                       ` Ricardo Wurmus
2017-02-21  8:31         ` Alex Kost
2017-02-21 10:26 ` Leaving the guix project (rust question) ng0
2017-02-21 17:40   ` Leaving the guix project Jan Nieuwenhuizen
2017-03-06  9:44 ` Ludovic Courtès
2017-03-10 20:20   ` David Craven
2017-03-10 21:39     ` Ludovic Courtès
2017-03-11 11:57       ` ng0
2017-03-11  1:30     ` Adonay Felipe Nogueira
     [not found] <mailman.54233.1487782142.22739.guix-devel@gnu.org>
2017-02-22 17:29 ` Rodger Fox

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