From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id ENexKnIUsF+2XwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:31:30 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id ID2BJnIUsF+CdQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:31:30 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DF8B94050F for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:31:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:44062 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kdzOb-0004Ky-EA for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 12:31:29 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55890) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kdzO6-0004KZ-Mh for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 12:30:58 -0500 Received: from relay9-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.199]:58451) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kdzO3-000621-Jb; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 12:30:58 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 90.92.160.122 Received: from bababa (lfbn-idf2-1-1094-122.w90-92.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.92.160.122]) (Authenticated sender: mail@ambrevar.xyz) by relay9-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AEEABFF805; Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:30:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Pierre Neidhardt To: zimoun , Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: Reviving Emacs-Guix In-Reply-To: <86sg9byj07.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87ft5dzj2z.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <87tuttci4z.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87pn4g8eay.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <867dqoyu34.fsf@tournier.info> <875z68x73f.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <86sg9byj07.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 18:30:50 +0100 Message-ID: <87h7prx2ut.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.199; envelope-from=mail@ambrevar.xyz; helo=relay9-d.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/11/14 12:30:51 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: 6 X-Spam_score: 0.6 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FROM_SUSPICIOUS_NTLD=0.5, PDS_OTHER_BAD_TLD=1.999, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution , Ryan Prior Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.61 X-TUID: h3kGXkEJXQQj --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To answer all your points: `guix repl` woud only be used for queries, not for transactions. For the latter, sending shell crafted commands have worked well for me. They can be sent to an M-x shell, Vterm or Eshell buffer. Example: the user wants to build Emacs? Make a dedicated "M-x shell" buffer and send "guix build emacs" there. The great benefit is that the user is in a familiar environment and can do stuff like "C-c C-c" >> Actually 9 months, but the issue has been there forever. > > Yes, as any issue before being reported. ;-) No, sometimes issue appear after features are implemented, or after regressions. It's not the case here: these issues exist since the beginning of Geiser. It's important, because it highlights design flaws. > I do not understand your point. You are mixing 2 topics: > > - Emacs front-end for Guix > - Scheme mode for Emacs I don't want to mix the 2, emacs-guix does. I'm suggesting precisely this: don't mix up the Schemer environment with emacs-guix because of the load of trouble it brings in. > and then applying kind of transitivity: Geiser is poor (compared to > SLIME or SLY) so it cannot be used for Guix at all. Applying the same > trick: the number of packages in Guix is poor (compared to Debian or > Nix) so Guix cannot be used at all. This is not what I'm saying ;) >> We have 2 options: >> >> - Fixing Geiser, which might take a long time, leaving us with a broken >> emacs-guix for the time being. >> It's not even clear that it can be done without rewriting everything. >> >> - Or use `guix repl`, which is known to work, already has working code >> out there, and can be deployed in a week or two. >> >> I find the second option more attractive. > > You do not convince me. Because you do not answer to the question: how > one could work interactively without Geiser? How =C2=ABpipe to =E2=80=9C= guix repl=E2=80=9D=C2=BB > could lead to interactive work? See above. > For example, persistence between 2 > calls. emacs-guix never relies on persistence if I'm not mistaken. My suggestion indeed lacks persistence, but at least it works for now until we figure out something better. > And solving that is somehow inheriting from =E2=80=99comint-mode=E2=80=99= and so > more less rewrite =E2=80=99geiser-repl.el=E2=80=99; but Guix specific onl= y. Maybe I am > missing the obvious. Sorry I didn't get this part. > Maybe =C2=ABpipe to =E2=80=9Cguix repl=E2=80=9D=C2=BB could simplify what= =E2=80=9Cguix-popup=E2=80=9D does. > Even, I am not convinced. Not just that, but listing packages, package details, output listing, profile listing, generation listing, etc. Try it out in Nyxt, you'll see for yourself :) > Today, the real issue with Emacs-Guix is not Geiser, at all. Emacs-Guix can't install a package a package that needs to be built because of Geiser. So yes, Geiser is the issue. > Well, at the end, the only judge is the effective code. ;-) I have a proof of concept that works :) =2D-=20 Pierre Neidhardt https://ambrevar.xyz/ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQFGBAEBCAAwFiEEUPM+LlsMPZAEJKvom9z0l6S7zH8FAl+wFEoSHG1haWxAYW1i cmV2YXIueHl6AAoJEJvc9Jeku8x/A0YIAIczO/Iq6kmnrXEr38ppPenYE06mUlvp xqkodOsr7Y4mqtHL39CL/GKjYnM2gJQdJwMVRFuR8RoZJPf6D+xUvImAAcH9tsHy xRsdvy3zQnykp6CE+nvKwLmv+v8QenyEVmvuVGFJndEm36c8qng+CPRuM2BKPC23 lgIzN0GbPFpQqVjOHD1jZdYG50cyWiDPLJkWylmD95BC/8IUBwhe0q3XxLbZg8U/ mAUNh+ww3xbcs0BgG4AN365I6Wnt/Sp5isjQ8/KYw1z7hbq40mbkzfUR/+vDJ1lj SAt2NHsUiZfGGlu2LKaEI4p7JEuknqyH/7JvdJ5GWvBhhUmR5Ko/1Jo= =MOq6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--