From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id kGJ6C/90QWE1MgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2021 06:22:23 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id cJnqBv90QWHLSAAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2021 04:22:23 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D33517D25 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2021 06:22:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:52982 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mQMRA-00019t-6c for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 15 Sep 2021 00:22:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57294) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mQMQz-00019U-CC for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Sep 2021 00:22:09 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-x832.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::832]:39904) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mQMQx-0000q5-IU for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Sep 2021 00:22:09 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-x832.google.com with SMTP id t35so1240644qtc.6 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2021 21:22:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=Z5MvKUqRRC+hr/wFpPwrO2i3K6W73QEZluWrG19EcVI=; b=UWu7vKDSx3EKJjLKIP0VcloI0qD5inr0J0+p2Vl1V2Vbm3LGG33vjTJhJMUdYHO9BY KWD/w4TLXbuXeSjPj5V/VyTeoswXWP6XRioN3T61ZB8yP8VEzXTiymmI0KUBIfeqpG2O pF8XPSpUlhYTByqG70/nS23sx9OARUpY5dmHgRMSoZ6DoEUWb9muDa3kym0pC363nKXH 8QWadWMvQLRCVHyqkB6gaywqRC5EQdAtb0XgncwOmK+2zW5uumR7si3gqjyIaecDkBNK +z5DDkTvhd4PaOmwt3W/mSPFxeklQ9lVApIpqnqu0aXjZKvbq6m3HPgcReHvQDo5ay/Y hseA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=Z5MvKUqRRC+hr/wFpPwrO2i3K6W73QEZluWrG19EcVI=; b=JqALxZKd24hLJlbfz9tWdFQzMIt/I2D9RXu8BGbBr/DzFJ1aWeioyOYNCtTVTj0HFi DL/UJ2ASypWek+p7uxJ62t4qqyQaH3eqXDLRA7ShXB5Y7vXo3HPotq8VF4nQ/CZq5Bqc uluWYI04376C1VJM0xzHxnwoBmaPyYZLieZlvuXQLHkD+ao81Eb/4YNxb8TnXiaz4eMF mMiOogClst54dY3Hw5yoMVOTpe129e9bM/OqHypsMwWhEJUxTiZQP/90chVY+dp2UsQf NguOp3aEGyibYPvceHD1oJFY2KoHSTCdGYcXRZrvqMPy3HJTuHT9Z5MGAhXfzt5AyNbD HPhA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5310byYW9tGhwuP0MORHfUtYsR9Ai5ZZpP4Gt1Benzwl2QkpLw0t kBKjn4BVVLkEBRzKRzk1QgN+H9gNkdw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzAeYO/HD3kzJjJje2Cjv1/ehRafCeKLGrOFzEpxtw3HMPTkJD86KHADakgelZe/A8T2Ut3mQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:10c:: with SMTP id u12mr8239281qtw.303.1631679725892; Tue, 14 Sep 2021 21:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hurd (dsl-159-73.b2b2c.ca. [66.158.159.73]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t188sm9297757qkf.22.2021.09.14.21.22.05 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 14 Sep 2021 21:22:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer To: Liliana Marie Prikler Subject: Re: PEP 668 -- Graceful cooperation between external and Python package managers References: <87sfyapliw.fsf@gmail.com> <4a0cc6cc294f5788657ef88818497835dc244d4c.camel@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2021 00:22:04 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4a0cc6cc294f5788657ef88818497835dc244d4c.camel@gmail.com> (Liliana Marie Prikler's message of "Sun, 12 Sep 2021 12:34:06 +0200") Message-ID: <87h7emo4cz.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::832; envelope-from=maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com; helo=mail-qt1-x832.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1631679742; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Z5MvKUqRRC+hr/wFpPwrO2i3K6W73QEZluWrG19EcVI=; b=tXutYg53x/W03/4C+o310wZwwKK41eVDl2V9dLBdCYq4GGN2ZzV1gLTb7gMD2hNX4TK8z9 Ng30eLuMw8rkBo9v9nrtg/CRo5MqO8jVkZ15Nb+sG6oAS7HUHH9Mhlk2e8M4Eyn9g9IFXu s/p72supGJ2u7pTbffDwHMQUBuEwmGk5ndjZU6O2vX9djDFmK3S99lIehsmfO3Boyszo4f hkZYLN+Q6Qx7tKQKPPtPhPczFkGUyOIAgSwOmttX7UPl07pdF/Gpp9LINrF4nOl1yKdwVd DYCh4tllP5oXO2pnFt3q+NmsOTvk04FM0BZ1dy2kwubRLeSRjdH94YgNhTJraQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1631679742; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=D6VKPB/jL+QEtAHprjujNO36s75WydHiRTEwFXse5wczKQ5PHuo9uk/K/6ju0KARoDB3/Y vO7cm2WBkmMx60vz3iYabqmEdpBGiD4QA1r8uhKLHoePfMkDkjsehxbLn0HoSw1AJ63Yzc H6jty9x1YNKfRed7Bg14jyhMlojOXXvuhPzIwwZfn87M0PKoibOFt7rgI4WMyvv+LQsaoM RQ+9MGWm5T7zegCrqJc4aju6Gxowho4TSflgEH9w2P1jE/cJmOm6kQWy/rLu5JZRG3YUZb 4T2DbJ/qMa55I183eTzIvoTr47v1G/EL5wOHYYAHJzVze8YrfC+CIZYyuje66Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=UWu7vKDS; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.30 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=UWu7vKDS; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5D33517D25 X-Spam-Score: -1.30 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: +9Z3dDp4asCT Hi, Liliana Marie Prikler writes: > Hi, > > Am Samstag, den 11.09.2021, 22:36 -0400 schrieb Maxim Cournoyer: >> IIUC, PEP 668 is about *warning* a pip user when installing a package >> would shadow a system one; it does so by reading a EXTERNALLY-MANAGED >> file in the Python library site-packages directory. >> >> So simply put, all we have to do to enable this future warning in pip >> is to install an EXTERNALLY-MANAGED file as a phase in our >> python-build-system. > Imho I don't think Guix needs to do anything to address PEP 668. PEP > 668 concerns traditional distros, in which pip and the distro package > manager may both write to the same location (that location typically > being /usr/lib). IIUC it does not concern Nix or Guix, whose store > paths should already not be written to by pip. pip defaults to install to a user location nowadays (pip install --user) when run as an unprivileged user [0], so even on traditional distributions, the temptation to "sudo pip install" things and overwrite the distro's files has been reduced. IIUC, the EXTERNALLY-MANAGED file would also warn users when they override (as in shadow) an already available library installed at the system level, which could be used on Guix also (although the benefit seems small to me). Maxim [0] https://github.com/pypa/pip/pull/7002